Good info thanks. So not even if the tag is located in the table of contents (via analog out) ? Curious if the newer Onkyo 7030's with the changed DAC even will. The Wolfson would- TOC and SUB
and another new addition... Stardust Revue - Thank You (1985.04.25, 32XL-63) matrix 32XL-63 11A1, CSR stamped in hub probably first pressing of this issue flagged in TOC
I think Black Sabbath's self-titled debut may have pre-emphasis on the stock Warner CD as well. That would be strange because as far as I can tell, the WB CD pressings on albums 2-6 don't have it, but I'm making my own best of compilation from these discs and the tracks from the first album sound oddly bright. Anyone know?
Just as a test, I applied 'de-emphasis' to "The Wizard" via SoX and compared the result to the old CD for We Sold Our Soul for Rock 'n' Roll and the de-emphasized track I made actually matches the tonality of the same track on We Sold Our Soul - it's a spot-on match. Comparing both tracks to the original file with no 'de-emphasis,' the original sounds very thin and shrill. I'm very certain the original WB CD of Black Sabbath is supposed to be flagged for PE.
Interesting. I haven't owned the original WB CDs for a while for the first 4 albums, but a lot of people feel all of them are too bright. I wonder if they all should have the PE flag ...
Hi c-eling Just wondered if you have received a more detailed response from Marantz regarding pre-emphasis? I noticed in another thread you mention TOC only, so wondered if you have more specifics for future reference. If I did have a specific player in mind I would ask for the details relating to playback from the manufacturer, though if support is being dropped then it may be good idea to have something boxed away in storage sooner rather than later.
Thanks, and it does seem to somewhat contradict the previous reply or not; “We (still) support correct playback of CD, which have been recorded with pre-emphasis” Then requiring a whole month before you receive a reply must have involved many hours, days and weeks of deliberations. 42
, no kidding Think i'm forever doomed finding a new SACD/CD player that can touch the Sub Tag. As long as my old Onkyo SP800 holds out I think i'll be fine.
Probably hours, days and weeks of searching through the company to see if anyone knew what pre-emphasis was.
Jethro Tull -- Aqualung [CCD 1044; Chrysalis grey face; West Germany, 1984; pre-emphasis] notes: CCD 1044 2891438 01 AO; no PolyGram credit; Printed in West Germany; pre-emphasis flags in subcode, not TOC; no barcode; smooth sided jewel case Code: 01 98.4 [666777E8] [86A8E62B] 02 45.7 [629EAB2E] [F2C5FEC3] 03 38.7 [E175BC24] [3306CB5F] 04 33.3 [30E3E5A1] [E36412C6] 05 32.9 [1BA40A7F] [89BF78E2] 06 49.9 [36503394] [1543731A] 07 48.8 [BA9C11D6] [3D0C6A22] 08 59.9 [22402EBD] [E84B1B7E] 09 17.7 [3646DC93] [13DD8B13] 10 54.9 [37C4EAA6] [11AC2DD8] 11 47.2 [3F15A8C2] [8358ACF7] Code: DR18 -0.14 dB -24.43 dB 6:34 01-Aqualung DR15 -6.79 dB -25.18 dB 4:10 02-Cross-Eyed Mary DR16 -8.22 dB -30.63 dB 1:23 03-Cheap Day Return DR14 -9.54 dB -27.03 dB 3:54 04-Mother Goose DR15 -9.65 dB -28.82 dB 1:56 05-Wond'ring Aloud DR15 -6.03 dB -23.92 dB 3:17 06-Up To Me DR17 -6.23 dB -27.61 dB 7:12 07-My God DR15 -4.44 dB -22.51 dB 3:18 08-Hymn 43 DR14 -15.01 dB -34.72 dB 1:13 09-Slipstream DR16 -5.20 dB -27.31 dB 4:26 10-Locomotive Breath DR14 -6.52 dB -25.27 dB 6:04 11-Wind-Up AJ
Fascinating thread - and reinvogated CDs I’ve ripped that I’ve always felt were harsh / bright sounding that are on your list. Where I have applied waveemph IMHO it has transformed them. DR ratings have generally gone down a point, some have increased as well. And looking at the analyser in JRiver confirms the frequency range is more of the expected norm. But, most importantly, the listenability factor has come back. I have 2 CDs not on your list that I believe the PE flag is missing (or present in TOC only) Chris de Burgh - Man on the Line Heaven 17 - The Luxury Gap I will in a subsequent post supply the matrix info Even if these are not PE discs (hard to believe as they are both very bright recordings, especially ‘Luxury Gap’) then waveemph has kicked a new lease of life into them. And thus any debate whether waveemph (or likewise) has been ‘incorrectly’ applied I think just doesn’t stand up. My headphone listening setup btw is Beyer Dynamic DT150 fed by Chord Mojo DAC. Files are either FLAC or WAV via JRiver MC 23.
another Japanese entry: Kumiko Yamashita - Ame no hi wa uchi ni ite (1981) 2nd issue on CD - Columbia CA-3580 (1989 July) flagged in subcode only matrix C31-7513 2B3 87 matrix above is used from 1st issue, so logically 1st issue will have same kind of PE too 1st: Columbia 33C31-7513 (1985 June)
Per my first post Chris de Burgh - Man on the Line CDA65002 (AM+ series) Matrix 395 002-2 02 Made in W Germany by Polygram 1984 Heaven 17 - The Luxury Gap Virgin CDV2253 Matrix 28934 011 02 Made in W Germany 1983
Neither EAC or CUE Ripper identifies them as PE :-( The Heaven 17 album is a transformation with Wavemph added - and although was remastered recently (with distinctly diminished dynamic range) my now ‘faux DE’d’ original retains dynamics and gains an acceptably flat frequency range. I guess it’s not always about the ‘list’ (which is an absolute fabulous piece of work) but being able to re-evaluate what you have, and have options to improve. Clearly there are CDs where the PE flags are just plain missing, and this thread, as it has done for me, prompts you to potentially fix the sonic faux pas. So a big thank you from me!
A huge group effort, that's taken quite a few years Have you had success with identifying a tag located in the SUBQ channel before with your rom drive?
Not sure I know how to do that. It’s taken Herculean strength to get this far. Did try software called cdda2wav but can’t do command line stuff. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated
You can use both EAC and CueRipper, as EAC normally only detects flags in TOC, and CUERipper can do both, so you can check suspect CDs with CUERipper first, then with EAC to compare. However, you need to know whether your hardware is capable in the first place. Try check on some of CDs already in the list, whether your CD drive detects subcode flags or not.
I confirmed with CueRipper the Lionel Richie S/T had the pre flag - which didn’t show up in EAC. The Heaven 17 and Chris de Burgh CDs did not flag PRE with CueRipper. This could be correct for the CdB CD (could just be bright sounding - it is an early DDD recording), but the H17 CD is way to bright to be correct to be a non PE disc, and I mean, it is shrill sounding.
Just curious... has it been confirmed whether the 1990 Japanese CSCS 6006 pressing of Discovery has pre-emphasis?
