Highly doubtful this US Nimbus has pre-emphasis. + This is not an early original-that would be the old West German manufacture which does not have pre-emphasis. Being 1988 it's a little late in the game. Japan was also later as well. For any title to be added to this list a flag needs to be verified or peak levels that match a mastering that has been verified
It's possible, of course, that it is just a super bright mastering - however - this CD has almost the exact sonic signature of their second album "Architecture and Morality" which I also have, and which is in fact in the list already as it does indeed have PE flags. The second CD is also painful to listen to as an extracted file, but just fine if I play it in a player. This is why I am almost sure they just forgot to add the flags on the first CD. Cases like this have been reported, although they are rare. To my ears, my "compensated" CD-R sounds correct, so that's what I'll be listening to If I ever get my hands on a WG, I'll compare.
The old UK Porky LP has that tipped up treble as well. (S/T) The West German cd pretty much mimics it as far as EQ goes. I haven't been able to get any peak levels for Culture Club's Kissing To Be Clever (Old Euro) to find/verify a match, the US DADC I added the EQ, puppy's bright as all hell and it helped and now sounds 'normal' no flags present TOC/SUBQ.
Dedicated CD Player playback/listening I had the same thoughts for OMD S/T (post #1116), and found that listening to a de-emphasized cd transfer resulted in a more pleasant listening experience, although perhaps not as perfect had flags been present on the original cd (if ultimately missing and so required?)? Maybe I should learn to add flags to the next attempt rather than de-emphasize using software. Now I sit with a new build pc lacking in any facilities for dealing with such at this present time, still have the previous pc’s though.
It's really not difficult at all to add flags, you just extract with EAC and edit the CUE file to add FLAGS PRE to every track. A bit repetitive, and I am sure there are other ways and other software, but I stick to what I know works, and you don't actually touch the music file, just the CUE. Here is an example of the first few tracks of the CUE for this disc before and after flags (the second CUE is from an extraction from the CD-RW copy I made with the edited original CUE): ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REM DISCID 8F08D40A REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v1.0b3" FILE "orchestral manoeuvres in the dark - orchestral manoeuvres in the dark.wav" WAVE TRACK 01 AUDIO INDEX 00 00:00:00 INDEX 01 00:00:47 TRACK 02 AUDIO INDEX 00 02:51:25 INDEX 01 02:56:00 TRACK 03 AUDIO INDEX 00 06:36:42 INDEX 01 06:41:30 TRACK 04 AUDIO INDEX 00 09:23:47 INDEX 01 09:27:55 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REM DISCID 8F08D40A REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v1.0b3" FILE "TEST.wav" WAVE TRACK 01 AUDIO FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 00:00:00 INDEX 01 00:00:47 TRACK 02 AUDIO FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 02:51:25 INDEX 01 02:56:00 TRACK 03 AUDIO FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 06:36:42 INDEX 01 06:41:30 TRACK 04 AUDIO FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 09:23:47 INDEX 01 09:27:55
The pre-emphasized mastering of mentioned Culture Club album is audibly such, unlistenable without deemph. A later pressing by PDO UK (and possibly some others) missed the flag and the disc sounds very obviously wrong as it is thus. If you need the peak levels and they legit aren't present anywhere you checked I could rip and test my copy for you.
Thanks. Were any found with the flag? Think that's my question, then we could see if any peaks match that. That OMD-S/T. That would make no sense that a 1988 US manufacture would have pre-emphasis. They received the tapes/copy for it's 1987 LP debut. Probably just poor mastering. I wasn't impressed with any of US's efforts for this band when the 1987's/1988 were done. S/T/Organisation/-Dazzle Ships and A&M (CD)
These are the levels taken from the OMD S/T cd if of any use for comparison against other editions. Matrix: 786017 2 @ 2 1-1-8 NL 95.5 / 55.5 / 92.6 / 80.3 / 57.9 / 66.1 / 77.4 / 89.7 / 87.0 / 95.5 DR14......-0.40 dB......-17.05 dB DR12......-5.11 dB......-20.05 dB DR14......-0.67 dB......-16.76 dB DR13......-1.91 dB......-17.29 dB DR15......-4.75 dB......-25.03 dB DR15......-3.58 dB......-21.23 dB DR13......-2.22 dB......-18.35 dB DR15......-0.94 dB......-17.74 dB DR16......-1.21 dB......-21.29 dB DR15......-0.40 dB......-18.08 dB De-emphasized CD (foobar2000) 84.1 / 52.2 / 80.8 / 72.6 / 53.9 / 62.3 / 71.5 / 78.3 / 68.4 / 94.3 DR13......-1.50 dB......-17.79 dB DR12......-5.64 dB......-20.44 dB DR13......-1.85 dB......-17.13 dB DR13......-2.78 dB......-17.99 dB DR14......-5.36 dB......-25.29 dB DR15......-4.10 dB......-21.85 dB DR12......-2.91 dB......-19.13 dB DR13......-2.12 dB......-18.46 dB DR15......-3.30 dB......-22.16 dB DR15......-0.51 dB......-18.23 dB
Thanks Mbe. That one carry's onto the Virgin Box (DADC Austria) also. WG Blue Face. DR14 0.00 dB -16.72 dB 2:55 01-Bunker Soldiers DR12 -4.71 dB -19.65 dB 3:45 02-Almost DR14 -0.27 dB -16.36 dB 2:46 03-Mystereality DR13 -1.51 dB -16.89 dB 3:39 04-Electricity DR15 -4.35 dB -24.55 dB 5:42 05-The Messerschmitt Twins DR15 -3.18 dB -20.83 dB 4:12 06-Messages DR13 -1.82 dB -17.95 dB 4:41 07-Julia's Song DR15 -0.54 dB -17.34 dB 3:13 08-Red Frame/White Light DR16 -0.81 dB -20.89 dB 3:00 09-Dancing DR15 0.00 dB -17.74 dB 3:49 10-Pretending To See The Future Here's a sample of the UK Porky LP. I just think it's the recording. Dropbox - 06 - Messages.wav - Simplify your life
I initially read-over the part from ‘LP’, thinking what’s happening here @ 4608kbs Lp being more in-line to the cd without rather than with de-emphasis for certain.
Wonder if Disques SNB Ltée Canada noticed this as being an 'issue' The Canadian LP cut is EQ'd quite a bit warmer. Years I've been looking for the Canadian compact disc to see if this 'trait' carried to the format with no luck.
I compared the EQ curves of a few tracks on the old blue face CDV2232 with those on the 2003 remaster. The 2003 almost perfectly follows the old disc's de-emphasized curves in the higher frequencies, though as expected the 2003 has more low end. I too can now confidently say that the represses of the CDV2232 without tags are faulty. Code: Analyzed: Culture Club / Kissing To Be Clever CDV2232 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR16 -0.14 dB -19.04 dB 4:40 01-White Boy (Dance Mix) DR14 -0.33 dB -17.50 dB 3:37 02-You Know I'm Not Crazy DR16 -0.77 dB -18.44 dB 2:36 03-I'll Tumble 4 Ya DR15 -0.54 dB -17.74 dB 3:11 04-Take Control DR14 -2.78 dB -20.66 dB 4:22 05-Love Twist (featuring Captain Crucial) DR16 -0.44 dB -18.63 dB 3:50 06-Boy Boy (I'm The Boy) DR14 -0.53 dB -17.43 dB 3:17 07-I'm Afraid Of Me (Remix) DR15 -1.58 dB -19.49 dB 3:43 08-White Boys Can't Control It DR15 -0.67 dB -18.63 dB 4:23 09-Do You Really Want To Hurt Me -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 9 Official DR value: DR15 PS. The Epic US DADC of the 1987 comp 'This Time: The First Four Years' is not identical to the EUR Virgin. The digital source is the same but the polarity and stereo channels are swapped and the EQ has been digitally edited a bit on at least one of the two. Maybe the same happened with the US Epic 'Kissing To Be Clever' ?
Thanks. As far as channels go, White Boy (Dance) on the DADC first cymbal hit at the start is right channel.
Thank you! Funny, I can run into copy's galore of Colour By Numbers on LP but not once for this album, at least I could compare them somewhat. Peaks DADC- 72.6-Do You Really Want To Hurt Me 74.5- I'm Afraid of Me (Remix) 74.4-You Know I'm Not Crazy 82.3-I'll Tumble 4 Ya 65.4-Love Twist 73.2-Time (Clock of The Heart) 83.7-White Boy (Dance Mix) 74.5-Boy, Boy, (I'm The Boy) 80.9-White Boys Can't Control It 79.6-Take Control
I worked out what was messing up my results a couple of years back - if you put a subfolder in a folder you are listening to on Squeezebox then when you play from the top folder it makes a playlist of all the tracks in that folder and the subfolder(s)! For each album, I had de-emph files in the top folder and the original files in a subfolder - so, as I was skipping around, unbeknownst to me I could be listening to either the originals or the de-emphasised tracks... Anyway, I've gone through my Santana CDs again, this time being careful not to mix up the files and these are my results. These titles have pre-emphasis applied and need de-emphasis to be applied for the correct playback EQ: Japan for Europe [SONY CDCBS 84946]: Zebop! 2009 Original Album Classics [SONY Columbia 88697445562]: Marathon Zebop! Shangó 2011 Original Album Classics [SONY Columbia 88697945712]: Beyond Appearances ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zebop! seems to be one that people aren't sure about but it definitely has pre-emphasis applied.
Thanks Mal So it looks like these old pre-emphasis mastering's carried over to the OAC sets. Neat, flags all table of contents for these?
I can't be sure (no players handy) but I think these may all be unflagged. Even this old Japan for Europe CD (cloned on the OAC set) seems to be missing the flags (not detected on an older player when I tried it, anyway): Santana – Zebop! (CD) In fact, some of these pre-emphasised masterings seem to have made it to the download era without it ever being picked up
I found one-a Dan Fogelberg title so far. Streaming/DL sites never properly EQ'd it, just a flat cd rip
