Since there isn't single thread around here yet there seems to a lot of Primaluna amps and preamps around. So I decided to make a single thread where we can hopefully gather up the knowledge and share it. I have the Dialogue Premium HP integrated amp which is predecessor to the EVO400 integrated. Despite being a bit older model I love it to bits, especially after tube rolling to Gold Lions KT88. It's a great package at stock already and overall I don't itch for another amp. But the tube rolling itch is there since the unique autobias makes it too easy. On gain stage, where the main sonic difference should come, I tried the highly appraised Brimar 12au7 long plates, but they were a bit harsh side or "grainy" for my taste, I am mostly on electronic and jazz - maybe rock listeners found them liking more. I then tried Psvane 12au7-s "Art" and find them more to my liking, silkyness, depth and "3D", amazing bottom end, but one of the matched pair's side tube burned and broke at around 100 hour mark to my dissapointment. So for me Psvane 12au7-s "Art" - great if not superb sound, but poor reliability. Now back to Brimars and comparison again I actually found liking the stock Primaluna marked chinese tubes what ever they are made by (Shuguang?) and I could almost stick with them. I recently got the Pillips JAN (meaning presumably a military rating?) tubes to try - takes awfully lot of time to run them in, well over 50 hours in my estimation and fully freed up around 80+ hour mark, I'm getting there and starting to like them. Will keep you updated. Please be free to share your Primaluna amp, experiences, tricks and tips!
I’ve got the dialogue premium integrated, love it paired with Focal 1008be2. Kt150s lots of grunt and soundstage.
Sorry meant a singular thread contained in one just on amps. There are lots spread out threads on different Primaluna single or two model comparing specific threads but I find them hard to make up or collecting the necessary info by searching/browsing them one by one is fiddly to say at least. To put Primaluna amps knowledge into a single thread - that'd be the point of this thread, at least I'd hope so.
What Primaluna thread is this without some pictures?! Got to love that KT88 glow. Back to the topic. Now that they're fully burned in: the forementioned JAN Phillips 12au7 are in fact very pleasant sonically in Primaluna gain positions, they don't have that subtle edgyness the Brimar long plates have making me prefer the JANs. To my surprise they are "Made in USA" and they cost peanuts compared to Brimars, so definitely a win-win for me.
Caps arrived. Decided to mod the gain stage caps that probably are among the most critical parts in circuitry sonic quality wise. The guts of Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP. It's really superbly made, all critical cirtuictry is point-to-point and high quality parts already in stock form. I wouldn't recommend any modding here unless you're 'anal' about it like I am. Since the gain caps are already top notch in Primaluna stock form I went the step further for the very best caps available by most comparison reviews available with V-Cap TFTF (Fluoropolymer film and tin foil audiophile capacitors), arguably only barring Audio Note Silver Foil capacitors that literally cost a fortune though and TFTFs aren't cheap either. As for V-Cap TFTF there are "new" models of those in CuTF (Copper Foil Fluoropolymer Film), but the now discontinued TFTF is a more proven and more highly praised cap thanks to it's long and tested production method IMO and fortunately some high-end audiophile shops still have those gems in stock. Original caps are DuRoch "Made in France", those are already high quality audiophile caps, very precise, rated to +/- 3%. They have thousands of hours on them, still work flawlessly. But being a bit anal decided to replace those with the one of the best high-end capacitors available on the market. Glad that Primaluna has left some decent space there since those V-Caps are huge, but managed to fit them just fine. Story is those V-Caps need hundreds of hours to fully burn-in, so it'll be long before I can "taste" them to their fullest. But after around 20 hours I have on them now they are already starting to "open" up. My Dialogue already HP sounds like a full level above now. It's subltle, but there's certain sonic depth and finesse I didn't have before. It's suble, but it's there aleady. Will let you know how they evolve in SQ once they reach their full potential.
On my PL Dialogue Premium preamp I replaced the output caps with the new V-Cap ODAMs since space is tight. Definitely worth it. I have an EVO 300 power amp and am itching to do some cap replacement there, but am waiting until the warranty runs out, since I had an issue with a previous PL amp that was taken care of under warranty. Once bitten and all that. JohnK
I have the same PL Dialogue Premium HP integrated and love it! I have rolled in various small tubes in the gain stage and my fav's are NOS Mullard CV4003's. Very liquid mid's, 3D sound stage and plenty of bottom end. I have NOS Brimar's and NOS Cifte's as well but keep going back the the Mullard's. I have the original PL EL34's in place but have been really itching to try something different to see how it changes things, I just don't want to lose the mid range that EL34's bring to the table. I would be very interested to hear how things sound for you with the re-cap, I never really thought about doing that. Do you find yourself listening in triode or ultra-linear mode? I go between them a lot depending on the music I am listening to. Chazz
Where did you put the Jupiter caps? Ever try one of these? Capacitor Break In Box UPDATE - PCB + Screw Terminals - JMPGuitars
I considered ODAM's too, but figured I could fit those lardy but highly acclaimed TFTFs that get endless raving reviews everywhere. I am sure ODAMs are excellent in their own way as well. I stress the stock Primaluna is already excellent. No need to mod anything unless you're into tube rolling and/or mighty critical on it's internal parts. The stock EL34s are very underrated indeed, they are fabulous tubes in fact. Gain tubes is where you get most of the change. And actually gain capacitors have similar effect that's why I went for them V-Cap TFTFs for this (if not most-) critical spot in the amp. I am approx 80/20% between Ultra-Linear/Triode mode. Like you it depends on music, but mostly depends on the time of the day. I.e. during the day when my hearing and mind is the sharpest and look for some musical excitement it's in UL - the true "tube bliss" sound for me with some expected tube THD at it's finest, but in the morning and late evenings or nighttime listening I tend to stick exclusivly in TR (Triode). It's more relaxed and precise and easier to digest when you're not in the sharpest mood. This UL/TR switch on Primaluna is God sent it this light. I'd not want any other amp from now on to be stuck in single architecture when music and your mood is the always varying factor. I wasn't so sure making a burn-in bench since in my mind music is a very varying current, yet burn-in bences burn them in constant current. So I thought maybe not so correct way buring them in bench, and building a programmed bench with a randomly varying current not exceeding caps tolerance levels is beyond my skillset currently. Maybe in the future. I was about to get there on Jupiter caps! Those Jupiter Copper Foil & Wax caps are controversial since some people rave about their sound, but those who have measured them in detail tend to be dissapointed (small distortions measured). IMHO Jupiter cap stands where psychoacoustic hearing preference is set above measurements, hence they have their subtle speciefic sound character, you may like or may not. After long consideration between different caps I decided to try the Jupiter CFWs to see how they change the sound and if it makes the amp better for my ears. I always wanted the amp with a tiny bit of a "twist" (see my UL vs TR mode logic and preference above) and hoping Jupiters will give that "extra" juice in overall sonics. Time will tell after they are burned in. I installed those for the 8 power tubes. That is probably the next critical importance spot(s) in this amp after the gain stage. Managed to fit them neatly and for the future reference I probably could fit V-Cap TFTFs or CuTFS, just need a quality internal wiring to extend them. So far after 30 hours or so, I really like those Jupiters. There's a certain silkyness in sound in upper frequencies yet it "bites" a tiny bit more on bass (probably due to that characteristic distortion Jupiters create). Maybe it's a psychological but so far I feel kind of like my Primaluna went from 5K class to a 10K class amp since the sonic finesse really impresses me the more I listen and the more I like it. Let's see how they evolve further down the burn-in process.
Great thread idea. I own a Dialogue Premium HP integrated and absolutely LOVE it. It runs B&W 805 D3s on the 4 Ohm taps. When I was auditioning the speakers, the shop had them set up with the HP. The first record was Rolling Stones Stripped--just magic. This made such an impression I went back a couple years later and bought the amp as well. Break in took about a year before the lush midrange showed up, which was like turning on a switch one day. Very happy with the stock tubes. I did try some new production Mullards 12AU7 in the first position. Midrange was all liquid syrup, but bass was really flabby so I went back to stock. Can't say enough about this amp. One of the best pieces of gear I have bought.
Would like to ask tube rolling in PL amps. Namely the 12AU7 tubes. Is there a lot of difference when using the ‘right’ NOS tube compared with the stock ones? Thanks.
Very good feedback, couldn't agree more - HP brings true sonic magic and it's the best way to describe this amp. Relatively big difference if you're into details of the sound. But big difference between 12au7 positions, the center two gain tubes change the most. The outer 4 driver tubes not important and change very little. I cover the all important gain tubes part here. Stock 12au7s are surprisingly good actually, but you may find beneficial improvement or deterioration to your taste with certain NOS or NP tubes, and I've found all that NOS ideology is too often overhyped. Some new production (NP) tubes can surprise you, i.e. Psvane 12au7-s Art series, that in my opinion surpass some highly sought after NOS 12au7s like Brimal long plates. But I had a bit questionable quality issue with one of the Art tubes buring out at just 100 hours, but sonically they were truly amazing. What I've tried so far in gain stage 12au7, I must stress most of them are compared in combination with GL KT88 as power tubes with some exceptions on EL34 and I only can describe them in a very personal opinion way the best I can thus take it as a pinch of salt: NP Primaluna stock 12au7 - smooth and silky, yet nothing is too tamed where it matters except maybe upper mids (but this works excly to tame the enthusiastically sparky stock EL34s), the best "laid back" enjoyment on this amp IMO, can listen this sound virtually forever without exhaustion NOS Brimar 12au7 (long plate versions) - lots of emphasized microdetail in mids almost like an audible compression impression, a bit to "gritty" side making them a bit "in your face" sounding. Maybe that's why some people rave about them. For me a bit too tiresome side sonically NP Psvane 12au7 Art series - silky yet superbly balanced sound. Pure "tube magic" - lush, lively and involving, surprisingly the deepest bass can be acheived on this amp with those tubes NP Electro Harmonix 12au7 Gold - "flat" sounding in a "solid-state way" with a wee bit of grittyness taste in the mids. A bit on boring side for me but maybe some find it beneficial, especially those who likes very honest uncolored sound. Maybe all due to it has the least bass from those tubes thus it keeps all the upper frquencies "clean" from bottom end modulations NOS JAN Phillips 12au7 - all out "balanced" sound while preserving that subtle "tube magic", doesn't shine or dim anywhere. I'd put them something between Primaluna stock and Psvane Art series. My new favourites on this amp.
I'd like to endorse the Gold Lion KT66's. I have used the stock EL34's, the Gold Lion KT77's, and am now a KT66 true believer. The KT77's weren't my favorite. They were a little too analytical, a little too lean. I almost couldn't tell I was listening to a tube amp. The KT66's add the magic back. I'm losing a little bit of transparency perhaps, but they've just got that midrange glow I'm after. And some serious heft in the bottom end.
I’ve been to get the Gold Lion KT66 to try as replacements for my stock EL34s. How has the burn-in process been with the KT66s?
I have read elsewhere that the KT88's really shine with the PL. Interested to know how the 66's sound now as well ... have you guys thought about the 88's at all or read about them?
I just purchased an Evo400 preamp. I havent has a lot of time to listen to it yet but in the little I've heard I'm super excited about it. Coming from a rogue Perseus magnum to this has been a big jump. The separation in instruments and depth of Soundstage has been incredible. The evo also sounds a smoother. Anyway I'll have to listen more and then maybe do some tube rolling down the road but I think this was a great upgrade.
I've had a Prologue 2 for years and love it. The original stock KT88s were fine, EL34s sound great, currently using new Genalex Gold Lion KT88s and I think I'm done.
I've had Gold Lions KT88 in my Dialogue Premium for quite some time and really like them. They are "lively" tubes with a tiny bit more power where as the EL34s are a bit more "gritty". Difference is more subtle than you think though so it comes down to individual taste. The stock EL34 are rather underrated IMO though just for sake of tube rolling wonderland this amp offers with it's class-leading automatic bias circtuitry. I had KT77 on my previous amp and really love them, very low THD and crystal-clear pretty much all spectrum, but I was looking to try something new with Primaluna although I am sure those KT77 would be stellar in Primaluna too. I'd say I'm done with rolling with the current KT88s too since they are so close with perfection for me particulary with the capacitor upgrade I described above, for my musical appetite I haven't been more satisfied yet. But that damn curiosity in me are looking for KT66 to KT150 on both ends of spectrum. The latter ent a bit more since my Dynaudio C1 speakers really need lots of power and with KT88s I am at maximum in some rare occasions especially in Triode mode - so in case you are wondering - even huge 8 of those power tube isn't enough for some use... But all of them tube types have their good sides and sonic character when reading different reviews, from 6550 to even rare EL34. Maybe one day I will try them all...
PrimaLuna Audio Price Increase On October 15 2021, all EVO products go up 12% or more You know the situation by now. Costs of everything from raw materials to shipping (especially shipping) have gone up, and price increases are inevitable Instead of repeating the news you're no doubt hearing from every manufacturer of every enthusiast product on your list, from car exhausts to climbing gear to audio, here's a quick guide to the PrimaLuna Audio EVO series of vacuum tube amps and preamps to help you make your decision before the price increase. Don't forget there's a tube DAC as well! If you're new to tubes, forget everything you've heard about how difficult tube amps are to own. PrimaLuna is different, and even after the price increase remains of the greatest deals in tube audio today. How is EVO xxx different from EVO xxx? If you want to compare features, hop over to the relevant PrimaLuna USA webpage below, and scroll down to see some handy tables that compare all the products. Integrated Amplifiers — PrimaLuna USA Preamplifiers — PrimaLuna USA Power Amplifiers — PrimaLuna USA If you're asking about sound quality, here are some pointers. As you go up the EVO line, you get bigger output transformers, and this is one of the biggest determinants of how much the amp will scale, and how dynamic it will be. Let's look at the approximate weights of the integrated amp from each line. The EVO 100 weighs about 40 lb, the EVO 200 about 50 lb, and the EVO 300 and 400 are up there at nearly 70 lb. Yes, the amps are incredibly heavy for their size and price. The weights are an indication of the size of the massive toroidal transformers used, and these are, by far, the single most expensive and heavy component in any amp. Next, as you go from EVO 100 to 400 you see circuits with increasing refinement, using more tubes. EVO 100 and 200 use eight tubes total, EVO 300 uses ten, and EVO 400 uses 14. Of course, more tubes don't automatically mean better sound, but here it's a good indication of how the circuits get more nuanced as you go up the line. This means more finesse, more detail, more balance, more musicality. Which EVO is for You? EVO 100: Perfect for a young person getting into tubes, or for hi-fi enthusiasts who don't have a lot of room. If you have a top-flight main system, EVO 100 is a great way to add a bedroom or den system without upsetting a household whose ears have become accustomed to great sound. EVO 200: If you have a carefully set up system, want as much of that EVO 300 sound as possible, but have no wiggle room on the budget, EVO 200 is for you. With its big transformers, you'll get much of the heft of the 300, without losing the presence and detail PrimaLuna is famous for. You won't get the last of the transparency and extension, but you're still very much up there in high-fidelity territory. EVO 300: Customers who want the very best sound choose EVO 300 and 400. At this level, you get the finest hand-picked components: Swiss-made wiring, Takman resistors, and DuRoch tinfoil capacitors. The 300 is the sweet spot for most of our customers, offering all of the PrimaLuna magic for most speakers and rooms. EVO 400: While even the EVO 100 will drive pretty much every speaker we sell, the EVO 400 is for people with less sensitive speakers (under 90 dB) who like to play loud and need to fill a large space with sound. It's when you're chasing every bit of headroom you can get, seeking heft and delicacy. You will experience the deepest most dynamic bass, the most "air", and the highest level of detail. Possible PrimaLuna EVO amp setups go from a single EVO 100 Integrated to the top-flight, jaw-dropping setup of an EVO 400 Pre with two EVO 400 Power as monoblocks. There are many stops and combinations along the way, with two best-sellers being the EVO 300 Integrated, and the EVO 400 Pre & Power.
Still a fantastic value. My phono stage was out in my Primaluna/B&W system for a couple months this summer before I got it repaired. So I had to use a different amp as a backup for a while. I really missed the sound of the Primaluna!
I am thinking of replacing my Luxman l505UX with the EVO 400 to run my Audiovector R6. I wonder what makes people prefer the EWO 300 when the prize difference is so small?
If you have a big listening space its gonna compensate with the power and heat due to more number of tubes.
The $1,000 price difference was not worth it to me as I don’t need the balanced jacks nor the extra wattage with Cornwalls.
