Just to clarify my previous post regarding Takman resistors: I know there are more tubes in the HP version of the Dialogue. But PER TUBE...there was only a single pink Takman resistor in the Dialogue vs 3 per tube in the HP. It is strange that going to down to 4 tubes results in a lot less fidelity. I can tell you the Evo 400 has no more bass slam the the regular 4 tube Dialogue. But the presentation was of the Evo was more delicate and focused with more upper end sparkle from the first minute. The Dialogue, although punchy and engaging...was just lacking in the appropriate resolution for this price point. I think that is just a character of the Primaluna brand in general. Super engaging with above average resolution (I have a fairly neutral system: Technics 1200G>Project Phono RS with outboard power supply>Don Sachs Preamp>PrimaLuna Evo 400 amp). My listening room sounds worlds better than Upscale Audio. Listen, I am more than happy with the Evo 400. But it has ‘just has enough resolution’ to keep. It’s super engaging. I now have a little over 100 hours on mine and it has improved just a bit but it was pretty darn good right from the gate.
As mentioned, the nice thing about PL amps is the ease of tube rolling. You can pretty much dial in as much resolution as you want with judicious tube changes. The tricky part is it’s not easy to maintain the tonal balance of the stock tubes. JohnK
So it looks like Primaluna is coming out with a Reference Series (Integrated/Pre/Power) later this year. Should be interesting! https://primaluna.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/hfn-apr-primaluna-evo-400_reprint.pdf
The document you linked to refers to the Evolution series, which is their current line that has been available for some time already. I see no indication of an as-yet unreleased "Reference Series". If you have other information it would certainly be interesting to hear or read about it... Cheers, Robert
I think the poster was referring to the end of the interview piece with Herman Den Dungen: "Anything bigger than the EVO 400s in the pipeline? ‘Yes, we will be launching a Reference Series integrated, pre and power amp, at about €6500 apiece, later this year."
Thanks for pointing that out, I had missed it. Reading a PDF on a mobile phone is challenging for these old eyes! Cheers, Robert
Hello All, I'm new to the forum and thought if I may, jump into this Primaluna discussion... Looking to move from vinatage SS to tubes... after a ton of research decided on PL. I was hoping to get a few opinions from PL owners or people who have experience with either the EVO 300 integrated or the EVO 400 integrated. Questions..... 1. Not sure which to pick... I was kinda set on the 300 as it sort of falls in the budget, I could step up to the 400 but that would be dipping ing my Dac / Streamer fund. My original thoughts.... my room isn't that big (15x12) and seeing the features of the 2 are the same I don't really think I need the added power ( and price of the 400), does this make sense? Or.. does the 400 actually sound better or just have more power? I guess the real reason I'm considering the 400 would be to get more out of the triode mode as the 400 has 38w triode and the 300 only has 24w. Are my thoughts valid? 2. Phono stage... I was told by one of the PL dealers that the add on phono card is not that good and would be better off with a seperate... I was thinking of the Rega MK3 ( as my TT is a Rega Planar 3 with an Elys cart, and I thought the symetry between the 2 would be a good fit) . Or are there other good fits with PL in the $400 range? Thanks all!!
Consider another argument in favor of the EVO 300 if you would want to do some tube rolling in the future, I mean you would need to replace 8 power tubes instead of 4. I have the Dialogue Integrated, that is the previous version of the EVO 300 so I never tried the 8 tubes powered version to compare... I don´t know if it might sound better, but I never felt I needed the extra power, as I hardly pass the 10 o´clock in the volume pot. I have a medium sized room and I power a pair of Focal 948 with my PL amp.
I am in a 10 x 15 room and my Vandersteen 2ce Signature speakers are fairly inefficient. I have been very satisfied with my EVO 300 integrated. The EVO 300 has firm control of these speakers with all of the volume I need for this space. If I was in a larger room I might want an EVO 400, but in my situation I have no regrets. My last rig was a highly modified Audio Research SP9 MKII with a PS Audio HCA-2.
I had the equivalent of the Evo400 Integrated, the Dialogue Premium HP, connected to somewhat inefficient speakers: 87.5dB @ 6.5 ohms. At aggressive, but not ridiculous volumes, when I switched to Triode mode there was an obvious change in the apparent "effort" it took to maintain bass response. I know the change in tonality is expected, as is the fact that you're now at roughly half the power in Triode mode. It sounded fine, but it was apparent that the amp was now working hard. In my case I rarely use Triode mode, so no big deal. If you're a fan of Triode and listening loud, you'll want more efficient speakers. Or, and this is a consideration for the Evo300 as well, you could consider going to KT120 or even KT150 tubes to increase power - though that will change tonality too. By all accounts there is more of a change in tonality between UltraLinear and Triode modes with these other tubes also. I can't state that from experience, just what I've heard. Cheers, Robert
Thank you All for the sound advise... I did consider ( with the EVO 300) if I did want more power to step up to the KT 120 or KT 150 tubes... So I never did get any feedback on my phono stage question? Any takers? Say I did come across another option... I've found a used Dialogue Premium HP for sale ( about 3 years old I'm told)... it comes with KT150's and 12AU7's... so the cost is a chunk less then a new EVO 300 integrated.... any thoughts if I should move in this direction? Whould I be missing out on anything either way? Again thanks for the previous replys...
Is the HP an integrated or amp? If amp you will need a preamp. I think the HP is a great offering and think you would be happy with it. The HP is on my wish list as funds permit.
I'm sorry... the used model I'm looking at is a Dialogue Premium HP Integrated Amp.... ( compaired to a New Evo 300 Integrated Amp)... thanks...
If the price is reasonable you would miss out on nothing but warranty in my opinion. When I considered moving to an Evo400 Integrated from my Dialogue Premium HP Integrated, I spoke to the tech guys at PL and they clearly said the differences were trivial and inaudible between the two. KT150s in an HP is a lot of power and an expensive change that may or may not be of value to you. If the seller has the original EL34 tubes it would be worthwhile having them to compare - some love the KT150 or KT120 and others are happier with "standard" EL34. Cheers, Robert
I should add to this thread for those considering tube amps for the first time, especially if buying new: tube break-in time is a real thing. I'm new to tubes and admit to rolling my eyes slightly when I heard about break-in. I have not been a big believer in break-in for most gear, at least the non-speaker components. My PL gear sounded fantastic out of the box, but I noted a very real increase in bass and a slightly smoother midrange virtually overnight a couple weeks back. No changes to the system or room precipitated this and it was unmistakable: I'm very familiar with several of the recordings I noted this on and had played them recently. The midrange aspect *could* be imagined, but not the bass. I could talk myself into a bit more clarity on the top end too, but could never defend it... Anyway, it was a nice discovery. Cheers, Robert
Hello there and I'm just new here on the site. thought Id introduce myself I'm Joe from Oregon. I cant help looking at this site seems like there's a lot of people that owns a primaluna amp especially the integrated. I been looking not too long ago at the dialogue premium integrated amp seems like there's a lot of advancement on the current amp that I have going to a trouble free. When I inquired at upscale audio (Laverne, Ca.) last November 2019, the only thing they have for sale are returns that they marked down with 10%. So here comes the hurdle and I have to look at the new evo lines and I guess the dialogue premium was replaced by the evo 300 (pretty sure everyone knows). About a month ago, my old yaqin mc-100b tube amp is having trouble blowing tubes again, so I decided to get me another tube amp and get the yaqin fixed as a backup amp. The way how my setup is just a 400 sqft music room so my rauna tower with a 6.5 speaker is just perfect. Honestly I love the sound of my old setup. If I wasn't getting trouble with my amp, I wont even look for another one. Well so.. I decided to work my way in getting another amp and talked to the gentleman in upscale audio. So I decided to try and got the old Dialogue Classic integrated and see how its gonna work out. They told me that it should power 150 watt tower speaker no problem at all. Honestly if I can get the sound of my old amp from this step up, I would be very happy. But if I get a lot more.. great! Anyways from my old amp, I only use ultra-linear mode because I listen to a lot of jazz fusion and pop. But if,,. I don't get the sound especially the bass sound Im looking for,, I might be back to square one.. or trying the new evo lines. Any input would be great. Thanks again and hello.
Hello CCG and welcome to the board. I've only owned the EVO 300, so I can't comment on the prior PL lines. I will say though that the EVO is as easy to use/maintain as a tube amp could be. I've also been really happy with the overall tone and resolution (only have used stock tubes thus far). The only negatives I can say about the EVO are that (i) there no XLR connections, and (ii) the soundstage could be a little wider. Neither of these are deal breakers though. Really happy with the amp all around.
Congrats on your Primaluna amp. It really look like a rock solid amp. I have been on the site going back and forth reading and deciding especially on your evo 300. What is the purpose of the XLR for? and also what is an HT Bypass means? Thanks, Joe
Welcome! Well, I can tell you my experience. I´ve been having a Dialogue Premium Integrated for more than a year and a half, and I couldn´t be much happier with it. I´m an EL34 guy, so I also like you had some trouble with the bass. I´ve tried bigger tubes, KT88´s, KT120´s, as well as some other models from the EL34 family, as 6CA7 & KT77. I could improve bass with any of them, but at the expense of losing mids and boosting the highs as well, that was never my intention. I noticed that even with the lack of bass, I still preferred any EL34 to any other tube I´ve tried on my amp. I still preferred my mids even at the expense of not getting enough bass. I thought for sometime about what to do. I was running some Monitor Audio RX6, that has only one 6,5" woofer, another 6,5" speaker and the tweeter. One option was to add a subwoofer, but I wasn´t convinced about that. Short story, I went for a pair of Focal Aria 948´s. They have 2 8" woofers, 1 8" speaker and the tweeter. That was the solution for me. Maybe if I had stuck to a SS amp, I would have been happy with my previous speakers, I really liked them, but the lack of bass was a thing. Maybe they weren´t a good match in my system, or they weren´t as good match as the 948´s are. So, even if tube rolling is very useful to achieve the sound you want, sometimes it´s not enough when you have an unbalanced system or amp+speakers that do not get along that well. I don´t know what speakers are you running with the PL, but maybe you can go there for a solution? If you tell me you have klipsch cornwall IV´s then we´re in trouble, haha.
I think the amount/quality of bass response is far more effected by the speaker, the room and the placement within the room than the amp itself - given we are talking about an amp that is known to do well with bass, which the PrimaLuna gear generally is. I assume you mean the Ruana Vale speakers. For a relatively small tower they look to do pretty well in the low end at 38Hz (-3Db point). I have never heard them and certainly can't speak to system synergy, but if you like them with the Yaqin I can't imagine you would be disappointed with the PL. Concrete speakers. Wow. Cheers, Robert
Hi there and thank you so much for the kind response. First off congrats on your primaluna dialogue premium. I heard so much good things about the amp tahts why I was trying to consider in getting it. But the new model came in and I'm probably not yet prepared for the new evo 300 price. What I have presently is a yaqin mc100B 4-kt88 (2 on each side) these amps are not really rated as what they say so well just call it. 32 watts per channel on ultralinear and on triode probably 18 watts. Lol... Its funny because I found the matching speaker for the amp which is a 1 x 6.25 rauna Ymer Tower speakers and 1 tweeter. I am a big fan of speakers that has a port hole on the back side and I was able to adapt the newer jbl speakers and tweeters to the rauna which is 150 watts 89db 2-way system. (basically its not really a lot of power). Its very surprising that I have a rock solid bass sound on it. Like the gentleman: @WildPhydeaux was saying maybe its the reflex sound of the port hole which the speaker port is set 12 inches away from the wall. the usual basic gold inter connectors and gauge 12 speaker wires. There is a primaluna prologue classic 35 watts per channel thats coming here today. I wont change my setup and Ill dropt the primaluna amp just like what you said. Ill leave the EL34 running for a week and see what it will show before I swap to KT88 just to try it..... Its a rauna ymer tower speaker with 6.25 inch woofer and 1 ribbon tweeter. 2-way system. Yes it has a porting on the back thats positioned 12 inch away to the wall. I get a lot of bass sound from it. I will try to run the basic primaluna and see what it does in the first week just running the stock tubes. Its a shame for I have over 20 brand new kt88 that I been saving for the other amp. Hopefully the tide wont change. I been using the rauna for almost 4 years now. the speaker shell produces a midrangey tone so combining the 2-way is just right for me. But it took me a while to find the right woofer. which is just a jbl 120 watts. for my preferrence, I like the paper cone combining the cabinet. Thank you for your kind response. I will just pickup something and I will be back to tell you most of the setup details that I have. This is the one thing that I'm not so sure abourt myself. If I like something, I stick with it for the longest. But unfortunately even if I like the yaqin, I couldnt keep up with the maintenance. Thanks, Joe
I've been listening through GoldenEar Triton One.R speakers. I'm primarily a streamer using a Meridian 218 zone controller/DAC. I also have a Project Classic SB turntable (used only about 5-10% of the time). We mostly listen to classic rock with some jazz, older country/western, R&B and pop mixed. I've been pleased with the amount of bass through the amp, although like the other posts have mentioned, that's as much to do with your speakers, room and other components. As a comparison, I recently purchased a Yamaha A-S3000 integrated solid state amp to swap the two amps between our two systems. Although I'm still in the break-in stage with the Yamaha, the PL sounds warmer overall than the Yamaha with more chime and sweetness in the high end. The sound stage and overall resolution, however, seem slightly greater with the Yamaha than the PL. Both are fantastic... just depends on what your preference is. I'll be interested to hear your opinions on the Dialog Classic compared to the Yaqin.
Hi there and great tunes that youre into. Speaking rock I was just listening to chickenfoot with sammy hagar, michael Anthony, joe satriani and the drummer (forgot his name). what a show that those guys made especially the highway star. oh my its just like the real thing although im a big fan of ritchie blackmore... Hopefully those guys comes in my neck of the wood so I can watch them. Amazing speaker. Is it like a passive radiator? I heard some old-school speakers like those that are amazing. Doesn't require much room to produce depth sound and bass. Congrats on your Yamaha purchase. I am so blown away that they're still making the golden era style integrated amps. I was looking at the specs. That looks like a lot of arm to drive a speaker. Swing a bit back to the tubies.. I started this just like a personal hobby maybe I grew up in the golden years of hi-fi or Japanese hi-fi. at the early 80's I was reading so much about mosfet amps so I ended up building a mono block 100 watts mosfet when I use to study at manpower trade school. I brought the amp to school attached to a wooden chassis, a walkman cassette headphone stereo and a giant telefunken speaker cabinet. At that time, my uncle is a part time radioman and he showed me a Stromberg carlson mono amp running a jbl book shelf speaker. That 18 watt tube amp amazed me. so since then I started getting into the tubes. Being a youngster with not much income, I didn't had the chance to own a primo tube amp besides a basic heathkit 20 watts per channel. Though the years I kept ripping speaker cones by driving it too much but now enough power or bandwidth. The first entry level tube amp I had was a music angel 2-kt88 tubes each side. That's when things narrowed my journey. The kt88 tubes gives me the punch that I need on bass but realistically 32 watts per channel tube power may not be that much especially from a chinese tube. So my search was the matching speaker for the amp. I took the music angel to frys electronics and I plugged it in one by one and I notice I like the bass sound of the jbl arena 170 1 x 6.5 tower room speaker. at that time I my driver was a marantz imperial 7 tower. I got the jbl and I replaced the Marantz. instant match made in heaven. I got he bass but the depth and clarity was missing. Somewhere along the way, I had a chance to buy a Rauna Ymer (concrete) tower speakers. This was my dream speaker when I was in my 20's. The original speaker needs a lot of powering so I ended up buying a new set of jbl 6.5 drivers and a ribbon tweeter, replaced the whole crossover. Now I have the bass, clarity and the housing of the rauna produces a midrangey tone that compliments the highs and the bass. I wish I can explain it really well but I began to realize I can get a nice tube sound that's close to the punch of a mosfet amp on a lower wattage. Guess what.. after a few weeks, I started getting problems with the music angel. For short, I ended up buying the yaqin and right off the bat. its night and day. the yaqin outperforms and woke up the speakers even more. Confidently enough after 4 years very happy with the setup, the yaqin started giving me minor to major problems randomly. I was so eager to fix it because I like what I hear. on the third time it failed on me, that's when I began to realize I need to go the US standard or standard. So my setup still stands to day. 150 watt tower speakers grace digital media driver/internet tuner mxr analog in/out 32 octave equalizer (sometimes I use it, sometimes no) 12 gauge 25 feet speaker wires 2-gold 3 feet inter connect cable Basically I wont change anything, and Ill just drop the new primaluna dialogue classic as starter. Ill run it 1 week all stock and take it from there. Then I will load the kt-88 and the old rca and Raytheon 12ax7/12au7. PS. I presently have several kt88 power tubes like reissue gold lions, GT, old Ultrons and for my own preference, I found myself listening more on the psvane basics not the premium. In my opinion, the new tubes (not burned in or match) gives me that bassy and clear highs on 4750 rating, when it goes down to 3800, it becomes warmer and saturated. My record run hours on the psvane kt88 is 1500-1600. On update on the primaluna delivery, the fedex truck didn't show up today and they said they will deliver it tomorrow. I will definitely give you an update and see. either or, I think this is already an upgrade to relieve myself from the headache of fixing the amp instead of just having the pleasure of listening to your favorite music room. After all that's what we are all longing for.
Somehow I missed your earlier questions... XLR connections are an alternative style and design of connector to standard RCA, used for interconnect cables between a source component and integrated amplifier or preamp and between a preamp and a power amp. Lots of opinions on them but generally speaking because of their design they can be better at rejecting RF noise and lowering the overall noise floor. This is typically more important on long runs of cable. The Home Theater Bypass inputs are basically direct access to the amplifier section of an integrated amp. The typical usage is if you also have a multichannel receiver for movies etc in the same room as your two-channel system and you want to use your two-channel amp and speakers for both music and movies. You would connect your receivers front L&R pre-outs to the PrimaLuna HT inputs Then when you're watching movies you control the volume from the receivers remote, along with your center and surround speakers. It's just a way of integrating two systems but sharing the amp that powers the main L&R speakers. Cheers, Robert
