Was Guitar Center Lawndale/Torrance already open in the 70's? I know what been there for a long time and possibly still open. 'YNOT' burger in Hawthorne, Torrance.
Just to recap from the previous conversations. I am currently using my beloved Yaqin MC-100B. It has always been the sound of the amp I have ever wanted which is a tube sound with superb dynamics, clarity, super strong bass and highs. The bass'd punch that you will hear on a 5 star mosfet amp. I would never look for anything else through out that 5 years but lately it started giving me problems which is coming to a point that its spending more time in the shop now than home. _______________________________________________________________________________________________ I just want to touch base about the Primaluna Prologue Classic after using it over a week on my old setup which was the Rauna Ymer 2-way, JBL Arena 170 2-way, JBL Studio 280 3-way which all 3 tower speakers are respectively 150 watts per speaker, 6.5 inch woofers ranging from 87 db to 89 db. All cabinets are ported to the back. music room upstairs 380 sqft. All of these speakers I mentioned are "closed perfectly matched" in the power and dynamics of the old yaqin mc-100b and this new prologue classic which are the scores below. Ill gauge this from 1 to 10 (10 which is best) (This is just my personal review on my own setup if I may) On EL34 Tubes 35 watts per channel output (stock primaluna tubes "New") Bass response - 8.7 Midrange - 9.6 Hi - 9.0 Overall clarity 8.9 Dynamic lower end punch with highs (the bass'd sound) 9 Depth sound 9.875 Overall sound on 10' o clock and up: I would not even put a subwoofer on this setup. Right from the start, the fully dynamic including bass sound that I'm getting from this amp is just incredible and I cant ask for anything more. I live in a 2200 sqft house and this amp echoes all the way down to the first floor. The window on my patio vibrates starting from 9:30 on the volume dial going up. The stock el34 tubes tends to bit a bit muddy and Im getting a "double up" slap sound like its a hairline underpowered without even noticing. On KT88 Tubes 41 watts per channel output (PSVANE Regulars "New") Bass response - 9.875 Midrange - 9.2 Hi - 9.875 Overall clarity 9.9 Dynamic lower end punch with highs (the bass'd sound) 9.9 Depth sound 9.9 Overall sound on 10' o clock and up: Again.. I would not even put a subwoofer on this setup. Right off the bat, the KT88 has more punch and clarity than the stock EL34 tubes. It sounds almost like glass especially when I'm listening to The Rippingtons "Moonlighting" album and Phil Collins "serious hits live" album. I live in a 2200 sqft house and this amp echoes all the way down to the first floor. The window on my patio vibrates starting from 10:00 o clock on the volume dial and going up. This KT88 tubes are more refined (not the best) than the stock eL34 by miles. The power is just exactly, bandwidth, depth is just an exact match to the map which is a 41 watts output on 150 watt per channel cabinets 87 to 98 db. The difference between "my personal" Yaqin MC100B it has a bit more of "reserved" power output for I can hear a hairline difference (non-noticeable) continous roll off which listening to a music in 1 hour, you'll probably only hear that in a random total of 15 secs. The amp quietness, clarity and especially the depth sound of the primaluna prologue leads more than the yaqin. Total hours of run and break in. 85 hrs.+ Personal conclusion: I love this amp and this will be my frontline while my beloved yaqin will be my backup. I am very happy with the immediate flaunting of its dynamics I'm looking for an amp.. "But" I want a remote now.. even just for a volume. Its either I keep this and add a motorized wireless remote volume control or just get the evo 100 or 200 which If I can get the same dynamics of this amp, I'd be a happy camper. This review was my personal experience. All amps are made differently with different results.
Well just thought I would chime back in.... the new EVO 400 Integrated arrived a week go... I now have a total of 48 hours on it... I realize my set up is no where near perfect, or where I want it to be as my basement is just finish construction so I'm set up in a little 9x11 bedroom on an old dresser. To complicate things just a bit more the only input I have had for the last 6 days was an old Kenwood CD - 6 disc changer from an old system I purchased back around 2001. My last system was an all in 1 ( Pioneer SX1010)... When I purchased the PL Vinyl Sound through in a Project Phono Box so I could at least use my TT (Rega Planar 3), it arrived yesterday in an individual shipment.. My listening week.... 1st day... like a kid at Christmas... unboxing, very easy, the hardest part lifting it out of the box... I knew I was in for a treat the second I hit the on switch, the click of the switch sounds like turning on the lights at a stadium. The 1st few songs were good, I was very pleased, I let it run softly for about 3 hours ( with the disc changer on random) and I could actually hear a difference as I went back to the 1st song I played. Next day same thing, every few hours you could hear a difference... so fast forward to yesterday my phono box arrived.... I got it hooked up easy enough.... the 1st few songs sounded great... for some reason I'm not sure if it was in my head but after about 45 minutes it got better, not sure if the phono box had to break in ( I kinda doubt it) but more the PL trully warming up... anyway I was up until about 3am (much to my wife's dismay) and couldn't be happier with my purchase!!!! Cant wait to get my basement set up fished and truly do some listening....
A good friend and I both have PL HP integrateds. We’ve both noticed that the sound improves after it’s been on for an hour.
I have the evo 400 and can also confirm that the sound really settles into stride after an hour. Not that it's bad before that hour, it just better after. I usually power mine up and stream a few tunes / clean some records / sort a listening stack / prepare a bowl for a bit before settling myself down.
Congratulation's on you evo 400. sounds like a mighty strong machine and should be just right on you 400 sq ft listening room. previously, I wrote my thoughts on the small Prologue Classic. I'm basically happy with it and I was about to get the amp installed an aftermarket motorized volume control. But my dealer said primaluna might void the warranty if I do that. I kinda felt that they were gonna say that. As a backup plan we agreed on getting the evo 200 so I can have the remote. They said this is a lot more and you might be in for a pleasant surprise. Agreeing upon the trade plus difference. The amp came in Thursday last week. Soon as I fired it up, I notice right away there is a bit more depth and details than the old prologue. Its been a week now and I been listening to it like there's no tomorrow on a moderate break in. Its very obvious that this amp has bigger transformer than the previous amp. The roll off are extending more a bit more. Sometimes I feel like I think the power on this amp is more than what I need being in an 18 x 18 room size running only a 6.5 woofer. I started reading the manual again and quick start. Under the part "Speaker Taps" they were suggesting that you play with the 4 ohms and 8 ohms tap to get the best sound if your speakers are 8 ohms. Do not feel obligated for it will not harm your speakers or amplifier. That's actually what I feel. The bass tone is "rounded" and felt like I should hook down to 4 ohms tap (even my speakers are 8) before I start to volume up the amp. I was thinking maybe I should run just el34 instead of kt88. Well see...... In a follow-up. on this new amp I notice the highs are more present. I was previously planning to get a set of super tweeters. Now its making me think and wait a while....
Someone above mentioned the volume control ina previous post.. So I really didnt notice this until the other day, when you turn up the volume using the remote you can actually see the knob turn on the unit... that is so cool... sorry I don't get out much!.. The one thing I would like to say is to all my Canadian friends is the support, help and and service from from Daniel ( the owner) at Vinyl Sound in Toronto is second to none...
Oh yeah, you know it on the volume control is a trip to watch it. Going back a bit on your past threading.. if you ever change your tubes to KT120, let me know how you feel about it. I am currently running kt88 and these tubes and were a part of my tube collections from my previous amp. Being said, I heard the KT120 is a kt88 with much tighter bass, more power and same musical output which I'm actually kind of anxious to know. In the other hand, I have a lot of KT88 sets and tubes to roll and I don't know if I'm gonna start looking at a different tubes.... LoL.... The trip about this amp is the LED power on and it matches my voltage LED on the voltage regulator and its total trip at night listening to the rippingtons. Not like my old yaqin I'm totally blinded with the LED looks like the opening door of close encounters of the 4th kind...
Listening on this EVO 200 for over a week. Its getting more chimier and definitely a lot more detailed, and depth from the first prologue classic I had. The signal doesn't drop down on a deep heavy roll-off. The preamp driver tube compliments is 12au7 vs 12ax7. I notice on the channel selector (aux 1, 2, 3 etc..) the dial feels "soft digitized" not like the old school analog heavy feel selector. Is this normal? Thanks..........
My "clicks" around per selection. You can feel it "hit" the input / hear the click. Continuous forward or backward motion ie 1 though to 1 either way around. If that makes any sense, congratulations.
The soft clicks are from the output relays opening in sequence at the back of the amp rather than being caused by the detents in the sector knob itself. I'm a new member to this club! It's a great amp but I'm a little disappointed at the subwoofer output. The output level is very quiet and frequency response doesn't seem to go very low. Wondering if anyone has an alternative perspective.
No sub required on the evo 400. Bass slam a plenty. I even changed speakers to a pair which didn't go as low. Bass is superb. Deep, controlled and tuneful.
Thanks bro... From a previous PL prologue classic (lowest model) to the newer EVO 200, I don't use any subs wether I'm running EL34 or KT88 family. Its got plenty of chest pounding bass. That also depends on your matching speaker. So far I have tried 6.5 to 8 inch tower speakers 150 watts 88db-89db. Its got so much punch and I can feel the vibration from downstairs. On my setup, it will kill the sound if I add a subwoofer. Theres an old saying, any amp or speaker you plug in and it sounds great. Your primaluna is one of them. You don't have to spend thousands of dollars on speakers to appreciate and discover the full potential of your amp. I'd look at a closer to you demo. or maybe this might help. if you hear a lot of bass on this demo, on my setup and kind of music, I can pound more. Hope this helps out.
Pity that neither of the two replies to your post were relevant to your point. Whether or not a person "needs" a sub is a matter of taste and choice. No one is saying the PrimaLuna doesn't reproduce an appropriate amount of bass, if it's present on a recording. Nor does everyone have the same speakers and room, which clearly have as much or more to do with the quality of that bass. Apologists abound when any perceived, even imaginary, criticisms are assumed. I listened to the above demo video and heard roughly zero bass. Could it be that the speaker in my mobile phone can't reproduce it? Good grief, comments made in the euphoria of happiness from a purchase are best ignored. To your point re: the subwoofer output port I can be equally helpful in that I've never used it. However, given that there is no adjustable cutoff frequency (or fixed for that matter) in the PrimaLuna, there is no particular advantage to using that output. The generally accepted "best" way to connect a sub is directly to the same high level outputs as your speakers, assuming your sub has this ability. This doesn't "steal" power from the amp or affect the impedence presented to the amp as the sub is only "using" the signal to base its own amplification on. Your sub will get exactly the same signal as your speakers and exactly the same timing. It's own settings can then be used to low pass as needed to integrate with your particular speakers. Cheers, Robert
@WildPhydeaux That is where your lack of experience displays. I'm simply sharing an experience and if knowing if I wanna drive a subwoofer on the primaluna, there is a missing ingredient in the system. Obviously a lack of bass. I'm just sharing a experience and thoughts to simplify the avenue. The rest will be his choice. I went to those before and I realize the more gadget youre adding, the more complex it get and the result is gear hoarding later on dispose and buy another one like starting from ground zero. Enjoy your stereo and its a friday. Cheers Brother.
Lol. That's perhaps the most ironic of your comments. I agree, let's enjoy a weekend of music, each with his own gear and preferences. Cheers, Robert
I might weigh in again here! My speakers are Klipsch Heresy 111s which even the manufacturers note don't do much below 50hz. When I hooked the Evo 300 up for the first time I was surprised at how full the bass had become. The whole lower mid part of the spectrum was significantly beefed out. And it was good. But as I started to play music with well recorded acoustic bass I noticed that the bottom 1/3 of the instrument - the bit that really conveyed presence and realism - just wasn't as front and centre as it needed to be. Listening to more contemporary music I noticed things like filter sweeps would just disappear at the point that they needed to come alive. While the amp has excellent specs down low it hasn't translated for me. Robert - thanks for your comment. My sub doesn't accept speaker level inputs unfortunately. I did use an adaptor to convert a signal from the speaker output of the amp into a line level signal but it added a ground loop that I couldn't get rid of. I've eq'd the sub as close as I can get but the dedicated sub output of the amp is such that I need to run the sub at almost max volume and still don't get that bass extension that I've experienced in the previous setup. My remaining option is to split the DAC's variable unbalanced outputs and use that to feed the sub. If that doesn't work then I'll be on the lookout for a REL or similar that has been designed to take a speaker level output - but here my concern is that the extended bottom I'm looking for might simply not be present in the signal. I've had this bass extension in the previous amp so I know the system should be able to reproduce it... Despite this minor quibble, the more the amp burns in the sweeter it sounds. It's a hell of a thing!
Before you jump to another sub I suggest an email to [email protected] describing your lower than expected sub signal output. I've found them to be very helpful from a technical perspective. It's possible that there is an issue present. I may have lost the plot here - is this an EVO integrated? If so, why would you be using the variable outputs from your DAC? Or do you mean you would switch to that and split the signal to power the sub? I wouldn't consider that personally, though it might be an interesting test. I would far rather have the PrimaLuna doing the volume control and the DAC outputting maximum resolution. As an aside I knew that the sound would change on my PL gear as the tubes broke in and the bass would become even more full. However I was unprepared just how Significant the effect would be. Really a staggering difference after a 100 hours. I've had to adjust the cutoff frequency of my sub downwards a couple times. Frankly the sub is barely even on for anything but content with 35hz and down, which is the bottom of the barrel for my speakers. The PrimaLuna really gets the very best out of my speakers. Cheers, Robert
Hi, just wondering how you are liking the 300. I know it isn't that long ago that you wrote this but I really like the looks of it and also, how do you think the 300 would sound with my PSB Imagine T2 Tower Speakers? Thanks Take Care
Greetings Brother Canadian. Did you get your amp? I too am debating between various amps, mostly the 300 vs. the 400. Just not sure if the 400 would add more bass or not. Or, actually, noticeably more bass for the money. Thanks
Wow! I turn to page 4 and I see you chose the 400. Are you really happy with it? What made you choose it over the 300. And thanks for the information on your dealer. I honestly have never heard of them before. Dealt with Bay Bloor Radio and others in the area....Kennedy Hi-Fi actually just started carrying the line I belive. Anyways, Cheers
Thanks Robert - I have an update! To cover off your points - re the PrimaLuna support email - I did reach out to them with an unrelated question prior to purchasing and received no reply. I'm sure it was a one-off but it did leave me with the impression they might have been a little lax with customer support. I'm happy to learn this is not the case in your experience. Yes, the EVO is the integrated. The reason for using the variable outs is that they would be driving the sub too. So using the fixed outs would result in the sub running constantly at 0db and the rest of the sound being controlled by the EVO. i currently have everything set to fixed output with the EVO doing the volume. Thank for letting me know about the sound opening up over time. I reckon I'm about a week away from the 100 hours and I already have noticed changes - it's not often a non-wine purchase gets better over time! Now, the good news - I've identified what the issue is and it's not related to the amp. Turns out my tube dac must have had something dislodged when I rearranged the rack in which it sits. As an experiment I switched it out and used my Bluesound 2i as the dac and everything came to life as expected. Including a really significant bottom end - even with the Heresys. The output level of the 2i was also SIGNIFICANTLY greater than that from the tube dac. So that was my problem! Now to hunt down the cause of the dac issue... Thank again for your interest, Robert. Cheers Michael
