Pro-ject 2Xperience Classic Acryl - good used starter TT?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Cornholio, Mar 27, 2020.

  1. Cornholio

    Cornholio Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    I've got a chance to pick one of these up for $450. It also comes with a Grado Gold cartridge, but don't know if it's a 2 or 3. I'm not much into vinyl, but would like to have a TT to play an album on occasion. Would I be dumb to pass this up?

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  2. SpeedMorris

    SpeedMorris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    Seems very good, assuming all is functioning properly. It'd be nice to know how the stylus is and if it's a v1, 2 or 3, of course.
     
    Cornholio likes this.
  3. Cornholio

    Cornholio Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    You mean the cartridge, or the TT. Just doing a quick Google search it appears to be a Gold 2 or Gold 3 from the logo, but not positive.

    Also not sure if this has the AC or DC motor either. DC is supposedly more accurate.

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  4. SpeedMorris

    SpeedMorris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    It does seem to be the AC motor. I see it's been replaced, though. You could test speed with a phone app, I reckon. My AC motors play album sides in the same time as corresponding CDs, so that works for me. YMMV, of course.

    9" Evo tonearm, beefy platter, $260 cartridge (new stylus is $150). There's some pretty good value there. (I like the Grado sound, but an Ortofon or AT fan would naturally prefer something else.)
     
  5. Cornholio

    Cornholio Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Yes, motor and power supply have both been replaced within the past year or a little longer according to the ad. How could you tell from the pics?

    I've heard a couple of needledrops done with an AT VM760SLC that sound phenomenal.
     
  6. SpeedMorris

    SpeedMorris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    I found the Craig's list ad.;)

    I wonder if the new motor could be DC?
     
    Cornholio likes this.
  7. Looking at the label the wavy line in front of the 15 volt means AC. You could check with Pro-Ject and they could tell you for sure. Generally, an AC motor is the most accurate. That's how a genuine AC motor in a clock works and why it keeps it's accuracy. If you have an electronically controlled speed motor in a turntable, it is more easily controlled if it is DC. Many of the cheaper turntables use DC motors and have an external AC or even internal adapter. If a TT with a DC motor doesn't have an electronic monitor and adjustment, it won't be that accurate.
    Looks like a good deal. At that price you could afford to get one of their Signature Series tone arms with easily replaceable headshells and replace the original tone arm for even better tracking.
     
    Cornholio likes this.
  8. Cornholio

    Cornholio Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    I found it on FB, didn't know it was on CL too.
    If it was DC I'd think they would have had to replace both at the same time.
     
  9. Cornholio

    Cornholio Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    I sent Pro-Ject a message on FB trying to figure out exactly what this TT was and they said that the DC motor would be more accurate.

    "There are two different motor types of turntables: AC power input -> uses the frequency of the mains voltage. DC power input -> needs a DC/AC generator to generate the correct frequency. The advantage of the second technique is that you can reach a better frequency accuracy. Also the electronic speed changes are done with frequency adjustments."

    I probably wouldn't mess with swapping out the tonearm since it won't get used very much.
     
  10. A synchronous AC motor operates off of the constant 50 or 60hz frequency, and unless that frequency varies, has no other option than to run at a constant speed. Sometimes this can create audible pulsing which on records, can be induced by the AC motor driving a cutting lathe. Many belt-driven turntables use fixed size pulleys with different grooves to change speed. With an AC direct-driven or single grooved pulleys, yes, the frequency must be change to change speed. It requires extra circuitry to do this, and increases the cost of the turntable. If you mess with the frequency, you also have to have a built-in speed monitoring and adjustment device to keep the speed accurate. With any turntable, a speed fine-tuning(pitch) control is mandatory for me. For one thing, records are not always cut at the proper speed. As an example, I was recently recording a promotional boxed set of 45's from MGM by Eric Burdon & The Animals. From set CS-11, record #K-13791, the side containing "When I Was Young" was seriously off-speed. Luckily, a couple of my TT's have variable speed adjustable at 10% or 20%. To correct the speed, it was necessary to reduce the 45rpm speed by -24%.
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    With any belt-driven turntable a pitch control is necessary. Speed can change due to temperature, slippage and the condition of the belt. A built-in automatic speed adjustment, monitoring actual TT speed, is about the only thing which can assure constant speed. Without it, you need a strobe light shining on strobe speed markings or a strobe disc. I recently had to retire a belt-driven TT I was using for recording because the strobe light became intermittent. Years ago, I had to retire another belt-driven TT, a Dual 506. Not only was the turntable belt-driven, but there was also a belt connecting the pitch-control knob to a potentiometer. That belt broke and I could no longer control the speed, which needed occasional adjustment. I didn't want to wait to get a replacement belt, so I bought a new Pioneer belt-driven TT. I still have the Dual and may resurrect it one day. I miss the auto-lift at the end of the record.

    With a DC motor, voltage varies it's speed. Running off of an AC adapter, the DC output voltage must be precise and constant. Many are not. Fixed speeds can be changed running them through circuits of different resistance by way of a switch or potentiometer. The common drop-in BSR turntable, used in many cheap-o belt-driven turntables is an example. Not only does the speed vary because of the belt, but speed also varies because of a non-constant DC voltage output and the cheap-o switches they use which can internally short out.

    Whether AC or DC, if it is a quality TT, and it doesn't have built-in pitch or speed adjustment, they often have optional external adjustable power supplies. Without an automatic internal speed monitoring system, it is essential to have a strobe system to monitor speed.
     
  11. Davey

    Davey I carry the moon inside a silver bag

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    As far as I know, all of the Pro-Ject turntables use AC synchronous motors. I think the DC and SB designations they use are just to indicate whether the motor is driven directly from the power line frequency (which requires manually moving the belt), or through a AC->DC->AC circuit to potentially improve motor stability and allow easy switching of speed.

    Many belt drive tables, old and new, and almost all direct drive tables, do use DC servo motors to drive the platter. Some are very accurate, and others not so much, but they all use servo circuits with some type of feedback to control the motor speed. There are DC motors that don't have servo circuits and would change speed with the DC voltage, but I don't think any turntables use that type of motor, except maybe some very very cheap ones.
     

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