Pro-Ject Debut Carbon: Hum Fixed?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by 7hik, Aug 15, 2020.

  1. 7hik

    7hik New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney
    First time poster. I’m very interested in upgrading my AT-LP3 to a Debut Carbon Espirit SB. Seems the right kind of mix between being well regarded and reviewed without having to do any manual speed switching (the one part I’d hate to have to keep doing manually).

    Would I be right in assuming that now in 2020 the long standing “hum” issues are likely to have been resolved in models being shipped now?
     
  2. 7hik

    7hik New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney
    No ideas on this one then?
     
  3. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Dont think so but you can always DIY some grounding for it yourself. There are videos on it on Youtube.

    Welcome to the Forum!
     
    7hik likes this.
  4. vinnn

    vinnn Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    The motor vibration issues thst have been reported on the Debut Carbon are down to the motor mount being out of whack, probably from being banged about in the box or just going out of whack over time, it's (relatively) easy to fix. Shouldn't happen but invariably it does.

    There's plenty of less engineering-orientated types on internet forums (including this one) that claim such an issue is unfixable and post on the internet as if it's a "major" problem and making matters worse by removing screws or chopping up plinths etc.

    That said, having owned a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon SB which came with said issue out of the box and having fixed it myself with a keen eye and a screwdriver I would say that the Debut Carbon Esprit was an enjoyable bit of kit but I still can't recommend one. Mainly due to the tonearm resonance which becomes quite obvious and adds a "tubular" sheen on everything whilst amplifying surface noise. After a few years it drove me nuts.

    That said it's not bad for an entry-level turntable and can sound quite good whilst not destroying your records.
     
  5. MRL_Audio

    MRL_Audio Forum Resident

    You have to work pretty hard to “destroy” records.
     
  6. 7hik

    7hik New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney
    That’s a shame. It ticked a lot of boxes for me. Shocking that such a basic fault may still not have been remedied.

    Any other recommendations? I was after a mid range turntable, ideally with speed control, and ideally white. A decent upgrade from the LP3.
     
  7. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Whats your budget? My reccomendation would be to spend more than you might think on the cartridge.

    Since you are familiar, maybe an LP5 or Pioneer PLX1000 could be great for you, the latter is probably where you could stop thinking about table upgrades altogether, it really doesnt get much better after that point.

    As for cartridges I strongly recommend the ATVM95ML as the best value cart on the market right now, at least in terms of quality stylus.
     
  8. vinnn

    vinnn Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    [​IMG]

    :D
     
  9. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    My 2 cents:

    Stay away from low-end Pro-Ject crap, or anything else that uses the same motor mount designs with a cheapo off-the-shelf industrial motor that is suspended with rubber bands/o-rings.

    There are two issues with the Carbon (at lease w/r/t noise). One is electrical hum which the company worked on but people still run into issues with due to equipment issues and Project's grounding methods. The other is motor rumble and noise, which people confuse with hum because it can sound similar but the actual frequency is different.

    So long as the company keeps using the rubber band mount/o-ring mounts and cheap motors the problem will never totally go away. It's luck of the draw whether you get a really noisy motor or one that is tolerable. I don't think it's worth the risk or messing with these things because the design and build quality are very poor.
     
    TheVU likes this.
  10. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    The arm is a marketing con. People thing the carbon wrap is "high tech". Yet in actuality the arm sucks. The thin Carbon wrap is a way for the company to use very thin, cheap aluminum.

    Oh, and w/f is about twice where it needs to be to meet NAB standards. No better than Hanpin or Ya Horng OEM stuff, really.
     
  11. PooreBoy

    PooreBoy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lake City, TN
    Funny thing, Pro-Ject just announced their latest version of the Carbon Debut...the Debut Carbon EVO.
    Here's just a quick list of what's changed:

    New to Debut…
    ∙ Sumiko Rainier MM phono cartridge
    ∙ Massive TPE-damped steel record platter
    ∙ Motor, motor shielding & suspension
    ∙ Electronic speed changer & stabilizer
    ∙ Adjustable TPE-damped isolation feet
    ∙ Satin finishes incl. real walnut veneer
     
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  12. nosliw

    nosliw Azunyan! にゃーーー!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Any idea on how much you're willing to spend?

    There are very, very few turntables, if any, that has a selectable speed control and also white coloured. Best I can think of are the Kenwood KD-2050/2055 or the KD-500/550/600/650.
     
  13. daytona600

    daytona600 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    7hik likes this.
  14. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict ___The Enforcer___

    Fixed? With all the hum threads / reports, I was starting to think it was a feature, and not a bug with the Pro-ject's....
     
    Oelewapper, macster and TheVU like this.
  15. Soundslave

    Soundslave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tomsk,Russia
    Dunno, been using Esprit SB DC for 4 years already - never experienced the motor/hum issue. I had some hum one day, but that's because the ground claw got loose in the back of the TT.
    I had the "microlift leveler" issue though, but it's random and probably due to low humidity at my place. Upgraded the stylus with Blue and plan to move out to 2M Bronze.
     
  16. SpeedMorris

    SpeedMorris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    That looks like an excellent list of upgrades. I bought a Rainier for my son's Carbon and thought it was a tremendous upgrade. The motor mounting looks like it should be an improvement. Platter upgrade and electronic speed changer to boot. I'll be anxious to see what customers and reviewers think.
     
  17. Andrea_Bellucci

    Andrea_Bellucci Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Hi!

    If you are willing to spend about 750€ I would go with a Rega Planar 3.

    I would not "upgrade" to the Project Debut Carbon. I had a Project Debut I myself for about 4 years. It's ok for the entry level but not more.

    Bye Andrea :wave:
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  18. 7hik

    7hik New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney
    In US$ my budget is around $700. I've already upgraded the cartridge on my LP3 to the AT-VM95E (not a huge upgrade I must admit) and got myself a Rega A2D mini. I'm at the point now where I just need to upgrade the turntable itself. I realise that the combination of white and speed control limits things quite significantly. I may have to drop the speed control and switch to a Rega. How cumbersome is the speed switching? My 7 year old lad is into vinyl so I'm thinking about it being easy enough for him to be able to do too. This vinyl business has become a real father-son bonding thing.
     
  19. Lucca90

    Lucca90 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SouthAmerica
    Rega Planar 2 ($675) a substantial upgrade IMO.
     
  20. Lucca90

    Lucca90 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SouthAmerica
    Et tu, Brute?
    Honestly, I don't understand why the at95 is so universally recommended in almost every thread on this forum, (even sometimes when it's not relevant).
    I'm not saying it's a bad cartridge, on the contrary (excellent quality/price ratio) but there are cartridges with better sound qualities, for a slightly higher price.

    Oh BTW, did you hear Michael Fremer's comparison between the AT95ml and the Ortofon 2M Blue?
     
    Soundslave likes this.
  21. willboy

    willboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wales, UK
    Agree, if build quality is decent then that new Carbon looks a lot of table for the money. If I was buying a new table in that price range think I would hold on a bit longer to see how it compares with a Rega P1 or the more expensive P2.
     
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  22. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Yes, but none with that stylus. Thats the point. Getting a good stylus early on so as to not wear out your records is a good idea. You cant even get that quality stylus with Ortofons 2M series.
     
  23. 7hik

    7hik New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney
    Look like the motor has had quite a significant upgrade and is shielded from the turntable much better. See this video at about 4.10 in. Might be that the Evo does tic my boxes.

     
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  24. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Sweden
    Those feet look so ugly to me though.
     
  25. Soundslave

    Soundslave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tomsk,Russia
    So you think that Elliptical and even Fine Line along with Shibata from Ortofon are not that great quality wise?
     

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