Problem in ripping a copy controlled CD - random clicking noise?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by LamberWBY, Oct 27, 2020.

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  1. LamberWBY

    LamberWBY Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Teaneck, NJ
    MrRom92 likes this.
  2. LamberWBY

    LamberWBY Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Teaneck, NJ
    I tried this method yesterday but even playing this CD in my desktop optical drive has clicking sound. That's why I decided to buy another drive. Thanks for the link to Stereo Mix though. I was using VB-Audio Virtual Cable for this purpose.
     
  3. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I was able to find lossless versions of songs by the 4 artists on that comp, including similar compilations of Chinese pop songs from that era, however not this exact one so I’m afraid that’s not of any help if you were after this particular remastering or anything. Last time I tried to rip a copy protected CD I just gave up, didn’t need it that badly… sorry I can’t offer more help!
     
  4. When In Rome

    When In Rome It's far from being all over...

    Location:
    UK
    Firstly, may seem like a daft question but I presume the clicks aren't apparent in normal CD playback. If not, there could be hope! I have three pc based drives one in a PC, and two others in two separate laptop's. Some discs will play and rip in some drives, others won't in others - usually between all three I can get a good rip. Even if they sometimes take an eon.
    Bottom line is, in my experience, try a few different drives first before condeming the disc. All drives are not built equal...
     
  5. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Huh! :biglaugh:seriously. O.k. that's a new one sir.
    Ticks and pops on copy controlled CD?
    Never heard of it. Maybe.....You need you need a new optical drive.
     
  6. Sterling1

    Sterling1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Try copying from a digital recorder to a digital recorder via a AES-EBU XLR connection. This might strip copy protection, allowing the recording to be brought into computer.
     
  7. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    There are some CD copy control measures that intentionally create bit patterns that cause problems with CD data drives (computer drives) but won't cause problems with pure audio CD players. It's because CD data drives process the CD data differently than pure audio CD drives do. And the copy protection exploits that.

    Ripping or playing a CD with that type of copy protection will cause pops and ticks if you use a CD data drive. The problem is that many audio only CD players now use data drives for CD playback. And they would be affected by that cd copy protection too. For example, the CD drives in cars are data drives. And the CD drives in multi-format DVD players are also data drives. So those CDs with that style of copy protection get hoisted by their own petard when played back on those audio CD players with data drives.

    That style of CD copy protection was more common in areas of Europe and some other markets than in the US. If someone has a European CD with that copy protection and is having problems getting a clean rip then look for a version of that CD that was sold in the US market. The US version probably doesn't have that copy protection.
     
    Randoms likes this.
  8. Andrea_Bellucci

    Andrea_Bellucci Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Hi Guys!

    I bought this CD:

    https://www.discogs.com/Ride-Nowhere/release/378814

    It's from 1990. I could not ripp it with EAC or with Windows Media Player.

    In EAC the album shows up but detecting gaps took 15 minutes. And when I started to ripp the CD, nothing happens.

    I could not find any info, that this one was copy protected in any form. I just ripped about 30 CDs with EAC and the drive in my notebook with no issues.

    Tomorrow I will try to ripp the CD with Ubuntu Budgie 21.04 on my Raspberry Pi with asunder.

    Any other EAC settings I could try? The CD has no scratches and plays fine in a stand alone CD player.

    Bye Andrea :wave:
     
  9. AKA Bubbleup

    AKA Bubbleup Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syosset, NY, USA
    Have you considered using the analog outs of a CD player >> A to D converter >> Record to hard drive in real time and split/ name tracks? Time consuming but might be the only option if there is no workaround.

    I do this for Vinyl and SACD. Never encountered clicks in my CD rips,
     
    Andrea_Bellucci likes this.
  10. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    Location:
    Europe
    Never had problems with those damn CC discs using Nero Burning in its late 90s-early 00s versions.

    Old Nero, cheap DVD/CD drive and Win 98SE worked fine. Maybe I was just lucky and found a good ensemble.

    One of the more problematic ones was Radiohead's "Hail to the thief" that I was asked to rip for a friend to play it in her car stereo.

    Her notebook couldn't rip it, we tried with some friends' computers, to no avail. Ripped WAV files were full of clicks. Even my Pioneer DVD Rom had problems and started making helicopter noises when tried to rip it.

    Then tried with an Asus Quietrack I had in another XP machine and..boom. No issues. The CRW 5232AS never missed a rip, unfortunately it's for IDE motherboards.
    I (sadly) realize now that that happened 18 years ago. :eek:

    [​IMG]

    Does the OP have access to old computers? Maybe it's worth a try.
     
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  11. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    There are adapters that will go from IDE to USB that will work with the old IDE optical drives.
    Here's one example: https://www.amazon.com/Vantec-CB-ISATAU2-Supports-2-5-Inch-5-25-Inch/dp/B000J01I1G
    There are others.
    There are also older full size drive enclosures that are designed for IDE to USB. I bought an older Plextor USB enclosure for IDE drives. Things like that pop up on eBay.
     
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  12. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    That CD is not copy protected. It is likely just a poorly manufactured CD. I am pretty sure I still have this one (though mine is a Sire USA pressing) along with the later reissue on the band's label. PM me if you need help with this specific release.
     
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  13. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    What I use for my old internal for external use with PE discs.
     
  14. Sterling1

    Sterling1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    I'm not sure, but, an experiment I performed a few years ago, whereby I recorded a DRM stream to DAT via usb to optical S/PDIF and then to another DAT Recorder via AES-EBU, seemed to strip the copy protect allowing me to copy the copy to CD. At any rate, I suppose anyone with a pair of TASCAM DA-3000's could strip copy code from any source via AES-EBU to AES-EBU and then back to computer to rip to a CD and then from CD to computer's media library.
     
  15. Andrea_Bellucci

    Andrea_Bellucci Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Hi Guys!

    So finally I could ripp that CD without any issues from my external slim LG drive using asunder on a Raspberry Pi 400 running Ubuntu Budgie 21.04.

    Very strange, but nice having a second system to try things out. :)

    Bye Andrea :wave:
     
    c-eling, Randoms and patient_ot like this.
  16. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Just had a similar CD ripping issue of the 2006 reissue of ELO's A New World Record album where it wouldn't fully show all files as ready to play and drag & drop on my MacMini's desktop so that I could copy them. I couldn't even play it except on my home system and car audio CD players. I thought it was a copy protected CD because it had the FBI Anti-Piracy warning prominent on the back cover.

    I bought a used one on Amazon where I bought the first one as "New" and the used one loaded all files quite fast and allowed playing and ripping to my MacMini.

    What were the differences between two? The new one was produced and distributed in BMG Canada as stated on the back of the booklet insert and the used one was from New York BMG offices in New Jersey and since that was used it had quite a few micro-scratches where the new one was spotless.

    Just FYI for those that may think it could be a dirty disk which I cleaned both profusely as well as run a CD player lens cleaner several times, none of which worked.
     
  17. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Do both versions have the Compact Disc logo printed on the CD?
    I looked at some of the various 2006 releases on Discogs. The US release had the Compact Disc logo printed on the CD while the UK/Europe release did not.

    If there is no Compact Disc logo on the CD or back cover then there is a possibility it has copy protection added. The copy protection violates the Compact Disc standard so it can no longer be called a CD and have the Compact Disc logo.
     
  18. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    2006 was also the era of Sony BMG committing computer intrusion crimes via compact disc.

    List of compact discs sold with Extended Copy Protection - Wikipedia
    MediaMax CD-3 - Wikipedia

    You can check if the bad disc is multi-session.

    The original post two years ago, the audio samples consistently have a glitch that is offset by about 50 samples, while on compact disc, left and right samples are stored together and subject to the same error correction. This seems to be on the recording, or a very poor drive interpolation algorithm.

    Glitch:
    [​IMG]

    CIRC error correction, left and right interleaved together:
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Both have the Compact Disc logo. I'm of the belief that this is a manufacturing defect during the stamping of the data in writing the 1's & 0's pits and dashes onto the aluminum receiver at the Canadian factory. Visually it's impossible to spot any flaws.

    Very interesting info in this thread especially on this page concerning copyright protection of CD discs.
     
    Ham Sandwich likes this.
  20. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Don't know what I'm looking at in your diagram and screenshot so I'm not going to know how to tell if my ELO disc has copy protection. But I can confirm I've never had to do anything as quoted from the MediaMax info posted below concerning end user agreements just to play a CD on my MacMini.

    But thanks for scaring the hell out of me concerning that old Sony BMG copyright protection factoid. So stupid and ridiculous for such a long standing and respected corporation. A bone headed move on Sony's part.
     
  21. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Just a little fun fact here on copyright protection of music media. I was wanting to edit ELO's instrumental version of Tightrope from the "A New World Record" CD and just recorded it off Youtube in HD quality on my MacMini using SoundFlower app and Quicktime "Make Audio File" command (recording at 32bit). Pretty easy and fast to do. After working on the file in Audacity and comparing the results to the CD version off the disc applying the same edits they sounded identical in quality A/B'ing them. So Sony didn't seem to see the writing on the wall on what streaming services will do to copyright protection.
     
  22. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    I know some DVD ROM drives have ripping speed controls that make ripping a DVD take 10 times longer than it should. It's a firmware thing. It's why I keep a selection of older CD/DVD drives kicking about just in case. I even have a HD-DVD/BD combo drive somewhere... I didn't know such things existed till I had the issue a few years ago ripping a DVD.

    Having said that...I ripped my first CD in many many years the other day. I had to remind myself how to do it. Felt like 1999 all over again. I do remember Yamaha CD burners being popular as well as the over-hyped Plextors (Yes I had Plextor). But I doubt you'll find a SATA one.
     
  23. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Riplock is for DVD media. The only DVD drives found that cut you off at 8x CD-DA despite your settings are some LG.

    Plextor never made a SATA CD-only drive. The last great "real" Plextor CD (made by Plextor and not a re-badged BenQ, Lite-on, Pioneer, Optiarc, or whatever else was cheap after 2005) was the Plextor Premium, and elusive Plextor Premium 2, IDE.

    They did make the DVD drives PX-712sa and PX-716SA in SATA. The last real Plextors that have full features with Plextools, and also do over-read into lead-in and lead-out, hidden track one (lead-in) reading.

    Here's a drive feature database. I've selected only drives that have C2 error reporting and all features. Search Database


    Reading through copy protection is probably going to be better using a DVD drive made after the protection debuted. Here's my go-to, IDE Lite-on DVD crossflashed to LH-20A1P with KL0P modded firmware, giving all the Plextor features in that database, plus Nero Discspeed quality checks and jitter for DVDs.

    [​IMG]

    Ridiculous low C1 errors above on stamped CD: 214 on this entire disc at 4x, and 352 total at 16x. (Medium bit-rotted discs fare a bit better on iHAS120 24x or Toshiba-Samsung TS-H653A 16x without overreading). Run a quality scan on supporting drive to characterize if it is copy protection bad sectors.

    Features of a good drive: Read the table-of-contents, including discovery of copy-protection's multi-session discs:
    [​IMG]

    Reading negative sectors (lead-in, sector -140), with full P thru W subcodes (where CD-Text is stored)
    [​IMG]

    Then image the whole disc and subcodes with Xpert Tools 2. Don't use a Mac.
     
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  24. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    Reading that made me feel it was 2003 again!:laugh:


    I did have a SATA Plextor drive the 712 as mentioned. However if you removed the outer casing you found a IDE drive with a SATA converter board screwed on the back. I remember removing the front and drawer front and spraying them black as beige was not the cool case colour any more. It was the Yamaha drives I was referring to not having SATA versions.

    The Riplock drive I had was then re-flashed with earlier or alternative firmware and then given away to someone in their rig. I replaced it with a BD DVD an HL GBC-H20L drive (one of a dozen or more drives I would have had on the shelf back then) that worked fine ripping DVDs and it's still in my workstation. For some reason they still sell for a good figure. This drive must be 12+ years old and quite heavy which I always see as a good sign. I inherited it out of a customers machine they no longer wanted.
     
  25. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    2003 again is looking through all the old drive forums and seeing people so concerned with burning DVDs! CD audio outlasted that.
     
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