Problems with "Ren & Stimpy" DVD set

So, I'm wrapping up gloriously mild autumn day by listening to a terrific playoff baseball game (which is still tied in the 11th as I type) and doodling around online, thinking all is right with my world for the time being. Then I pop in at the GAC forum, and come across this thread:

http://forums.goldenagecartoons.com/showthread.php?t=730

Crap, crap, crap.

 

That's too bad...the same thing happened with the Mr. Bean DVD set, "The Whole Bean". A&E put the "edited for commercials" versions out instead of the full length originals. Some episodes have nearly 10 minutes cut from them.

 

What a rotten bummer! Had really looked forward to this one, too...no excuse for futzing up something that should have been easy to get right from the outset.....

 

John K responds

TV Shows on DVD got the following response from John K:
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=2290

I'm not happy with his response (this is the same John K. who blasted THE FLINSTONES laserdisc box set he was involved with, for using excessive cel clean up), and I'm still on the fence about getting the set. It's a dilemma I'm also having with the COMBAT! sets - buying a set which is significantly screwed up vs. the realization that there won't be any alternatives for several years, if then.

One thing I noticed on the Golden Age Cartoons thread linked above is how frequently Paramount is being blamed for the problems with the set (rather than the producers). Granted, Paramount's output pales besides Fox, Warner, and most of the independents. However, thanks to Best Buy breaking the street date, I've been watching a couple of the new Jerry Lewis DVDs, also from Paramount. They are very nice, with fine extras, and fine commentaries by Lewis and Steve Lawrence. (I was at first disappointed with the gaps in the commentaries, but considering how long ago these films were made, Lewis has interesting observations and recollections about making the films.) Considering the price ($9.99 at Best Buy) and that these films were made over forty years ago, these are incredible DVDs, which seem to be problem free.

 

Kricfalusi mentions the banned episode "Man's Best Friend" as being on the set, yet the track listing at Amazon.com doesn't mention it. Still, I will be buying this set.


Evan

 

"Man's Best Friend" is on the set, among the bonus material on disc 2, together with uncut pilot episode "Big House Blues".

And it is a worthy DVD box set, despite the fact that five episodes have been edited. Two edits in "Haunted House" and "Big Baby Scam" have been done by John K. himself. These were the scenes added without his approval, after he was fired from Ren & Stimpy production. At least, they should have been included as bonus. The cuts in remaining three episodes are simply a mistake, probably wrong masters were used. It's very disappointing and unfortunate, especially since this set was loudly announced as UNCUT. Still, everything else is complete, and some episodes even include the scenes that were never shown on TV.
I'm not too optimistic that Paramount might recall and correct the set in the near future, so this might be as good as we're going to get. Remember, similar thing happened with Tex Avery laserdisc box set ten years ago, and it still remains the only source for Avery's complete MGM opus.

Dragan

 

So, I'm a little confused about the time line here. If I taped the shows off of Nickelodeon when they originally aired, and I did, does this set reflect those tapes, which I love? Or have they been cut even further? I had pre-ordered this set, which I canceled, but I'd still buy it, if the content is not significantly different than the old SLP VHS I have.

 

The specific cuts are detailed on the Golden Age Cartoons thread referenced at the top of the thread, which has a very detailed discussion of what was cut out. (Page 4 lists the cuts.) The GAC thread also has a link to a Ren and Stimpy discussion group with more details.

Cable tv has come up with many innovative ways to screw up old television shows when they rebroadcast them (typically so they can insert more commercials for other old shows they have butchered!). DVD is the last resort for fans of a series for complete presentations of television shows at the proper speed. All producers of televisions sets for DVD should follow the example of the SLEDGE HAMMER! set for Anchor Bay. Made without the resources of a major studio (but without the bureaucratic idiots I guess!), this is a very complete and detailed look at a show I vaguely remembered. The care taken by the original creators with the set really elevated the value of the show in my eyes, and I can only imagine how happy the die-hard fans feel.

 

All episodes with exception of five edited ones are identical to the initial Nickelodeon broadcasts (before they started to cut them mercilessly). So, they should be identical to your tapes. Episodes "Sven Hoek", "The Dog Show" and original "Big House Blues" are extended with some additional never seen before scenes, that were cut by Nickelodeon before first TV broadcasts.
Also, none of cartoons is time compressed or speeded up. The GAC forum member who mentioned time compression has simply misunderstood this term. As far as I understand, fade outs for commercials are present only on five edited episodes and nowhere else.

 

I remember reading years ago John K was upset about the whistling in the bath scene in "Big Baby Scam", which was edited by Nick to make the character evil, not his original intention for the scene.

I can handle the five slightly edited episodes, since I still have them intact on VHS. The censored stuff put back in(as well as "Man's Best Friend", which I still have not seen)still makes this a worthwhile set.

Evan

 

It's interesting to see that much of the furor has died down now that the facts have come out. Yeah, it's a shame about the five "cut" episodes, but many of the other complaints have proven overblown or unfounded. The first guy to review the set complained about bad pic quality, but was viewing on a PAL TV!

 

WTF? I bought this set an hour ago, and there is one huge problem: The "banned" episode, "Man's Best Friend", which is advertised as being on this set, ISN'T.

Been wanting to see this cartoon for over ten years, and I've been screwed, again. NOT "Happy Happy, Joy Joy".

Evan

 

I hear that "Man's Best Friend" is an extra on disc two, along with the unedited, original theatrical (festival) version of "Big House Blues".

 

how bad is the picture quality?

I've already read posts on other video boards warning that it looks like a badly home-copied VHS tape.

be this true? how awful is it?

 

I have verified that Man's Best Friend is on the set.

As far as picture quality, it is decent, though probably sourced from composite Betacam masters. I doubt component masters or finished film exists.

It is better than VHS or laserdisc, and I have experience with both on a high-end setup. DVD is showing the flaws of the masters but that doesn't mean that it looks like VHS.

 

Thanks, Michael, I did find "Man's Best Friend" later on. They sure did bury it. I can see why Nickelodeon didn't show it. It's a cartoon that could be distressing to young viewers.

Picture quality is okay, but the analysis of sources is correct, that it is not from "original masters".

Yet ANOTHER thing that could be "Hoffmanised"!!!


Evan

 

IIRC, R&S was never originally animated to film (or whatever the process is), but instead done on video, and rather cheaply at that. So there's probably not much that anyone can do unless better sources are found - and they probably don't exist.

 

There is a cartoon on this set called "Fake Dad" that was originally a half-hour episode. After John K's dismissal by Nickelodeon, it was edited into a 12-minute cartoon. Yet only the 12-minute version is available on the DVD set. So yet another example about how an supposedly "uncut" cartoon isn't.


Evan