Prog - What's Your Personal Dividing Line between Good and Excessive?

I thought of this from a thread about prog metal. I've always assumed that the general public has only limited appreciation for prog music and many people find it dull or strange.

My personal dividing line is Queensryche's "I Am I." I consider it more prog and more strange than some of the band's previous hits (rock chart, not really Hot 100) and I've never fully embraced it as good - the lyrics and elements such as the sitar confuse me (the band was deliberately trying new things/pushing boundaries?), and I think that's why it didn't catch on as much as the batch of singles before it. If it also were long like prog tends to be, I wouldn't like it.

 

When the noodling overrides the grooving, looking at you Gentle Giant!

 

No dividing line here; prog is by nature a tad excessive but of course I like some pieces more than others!

 

Supper's Ready = GOOD

Tales from Topographic Oceans = EXCESSIVE

 

This is a very interesting question, and it's something that I have been pondering a bit recently. I came to the conclusion that prog (if such an entity really exists) makes a virtue of excess. I've lately come to appreciate modern prog, like the Mars Volta, which pushes all of the buttons that would annoy someone who doesn't like the genre. Their album 'The Bedlam in Goliath' is, to me anyway, excess made into a virtue. That said, I am not sure prog really exists. Stuff that's labelled that way runs quite a gamut of different content. So to me, it might be that prog is journalistic shorthand for excessive. To which I reply, "sounds like fun, I should listen to that." A lot of it I find ridiculous, but in a fun way.

Not sure if that made any sense at all!

 

The ‘excess’ begins when the ideas run out.

I’m not a fan of Topographic Oceans for the same reasons Rick Wakeman isn’t: every time I listen, I try to listen with fresh ears but there are moments (quite a few moments, actually) when my attention wanders and that’s when I know they’re just ‘filling up the side’.

Most other Yes compositions from their classic period more than hold my attention - though I wonder if the long fade-out of Starship Trooper is entirely justified? Ditto the ‘winds’ section of Pink Floyd’s Echoes (which I mostly love)?

I don’t think Gentle Giant were ever excessive as tricky time signatures were a large part of their MO.

 

So maybe the excessive parts are the best bits? I like both of those for sure.

 

The line is drawn between Close To The Edge (excellent) and Tales From Topographic Oceans (rather not).

 

I like my prog to be melodic so anything that sacrifices the song on the alter of "chops" or anything that knocks on the door of jazz, tends to lose my interest.

 

I don’t know, really, if I like something, I’m going to go with it.

Also, Rick Wakeman was totally wrong about TFTO. And the proof is he never came close as a solo composer.

 

You know what they say...

"Anything that's worth doing is worth overdoing."

 

Excessive = Good

 

Curry Chicken > Tales From Topographic Oceans

 

I see this a bit differently. Although I love both of them, CTTE is the excessive album, with ideas crammed into every bar, and full of direction and intent. You feel exhausted after listening to it, in a good way. TFTO is mostly quite gentle and unhurried, and it coasts in places such that it doesn't feel intentional. The excess is just length. I can see why some deride it, it's kind of the prog version of ambient - something that floats away in the background.

 

Curry chicken > everything

 

"When will this end?" vs "Is it over already?"

 

I don't care if something is excessive, I care if it captures my imagination and keeps me engaged in some way... often that has more to do with my mood than the music

 

That's perfect!

 

If the music does that for me I wouldn't call it excessive, no matter how long the piece is.

 

The 2 are not exclusive differentiators for me. Something about Prog is a very personal balance between imagination, execution, and intention for me. Prog may be more of a spirit than a sound from my perspective.

 

If it's just watered down western classical music played on electric instruments, or difficult just for the sake of being difficult, I'm not interested. To be honest, there is very little symphonic prog that I like (Yes, early Genesis and a few others). I'm more of a Canterbury fan.

 

Good

Tarkus
2112
Close to the Edge
Lizard

 

It's usually the keys that will make it or break it for me.
I love "Fanfare For The Common Man" as much as the next guy but I'm generally not really into "symphonic" rock (and that goes tenfold for symphonic metal).

Once the keyboards get too "happy" I'm usually put off...and I play synthesisers and keyboards myself.
My taste is more Rick Wright than Rick Wakeman, if you can dig what I'm getting at.
(No disrespect to Wakenan, he's a brilliant musician)

 

The only 'prog' I've heard that I can't handle is Gentle Giant, Mars Volta and Jethro Tull - although I've never understood why JT are elevated to the undeserved level of 'prog', because to me, they sound more like a clumsier & slightly heavier version of Morris dancing music. Hey nonny nonny.

 

Six Wives says hello. He never equaled it on future solo albums; however, it's an acknowledged prog classic.