Quality of DVD copies of laserdiscs

I was thinking of transferring some of those old Criterion laserdiscs to DVD and make something I can see in one sitting, but I was wondering if it was worth the time and effort? I don't know how to do it just yet and I still need to buy a burner and discs, but is there a big loss in quality?

 

It really comes down to what you use as your capture device and MPEG software. You can produce DVD's that have little or no loss of picture quality. The only problem is that you can only have stereo sound without spending big bucks.
It really comes down to how unique the material that you own on LD or other source to justify the time and expense. The quality of your LD machine also plays a factor in the quality of the transfer.

 

Why can't you watch a laserdisc in one sitting? I suppose you could be referring to the side change which only takes a few seconds, or maybe to the fact that many movies are spread across two or even more discs. DVD's have their own 'side change' which takes less time but is similarly annoying. I'm so old and tired now that I can't watch anything in one sitting because I fall asleep and drool half-way through.

 

I've done a couple before laser rot set in, just in case (you'd have to be an old horror film nut to understand why). The results were quite good using miniDV and DVD Studio Pro. And even my first - generation DVD recorder does a good job at the 1-hour per disc setting.

 

I bought one of the ATI Radeon All-in-Wonder video cards with capture.... if you are serious about transferring LD's to DVD's, my opinion is - don't get this card. Video quality suffers tremendously.

I'd rather get an external add-in card for this purpose.

 

Stay away from video capture cards. Get yourself a cheap miniDV camcorder and a firewire card. The miniDV camcorders usually come with line-ins so you can use it like a VCR. If it's connected to your computer via firewire, the camcorder acts as a feed-thru between your laserdisc player (or VHS deck or whatever) and the computer. Then if you have a firewire video capture program (the free iMovie for Mac, dunno for Windows), you can grab the video and press it to dvd (the free iDVD for Mac, again dunno for Windows).

A camcorder can be had for $400-500; it'll have much better quality than any VHS camcorder you've used.

Hope I haven't rambled too long here.....

 

I have a camcorder so, in effect, I COULD capture video that way. I was looking at other outboard devices (via Firewire or USB 2.0) that would capture video, and the better ones are more expensive. I wish I could borrow a couple of them to compare the results. I guess the video capture abilities of standard video cards leaves something to be desired--sort of like the audio quality of most consumer sound cards.

 

If you have a firewire-equipped camcorder, the camcorder will do all the digital conversion and then pass the signal along to any $19 firewire card you have in your computer. That's DEFINITELY the way to go - only a pro (and I mean big bucks pro with a large studio behind him) using uncompressed video needs a card, and those cards cost thousands.

Even the outboard devices don't work as well as a miniDV camcorder.

Try it - you'll like it!

 

Using the DV camcorder approach results in additional compression.

Analog -> M-JPEG -> MPEG2

A settop recorder allows you to go direct Analog -> MPEG2.

 

I have PF's Delicate sound of thunder that I will convert to DVD soon. The LD is nice, but not as convenient. I tried to convert the unedited Star Wars LD, but for some reason, excessive Jaggies appear when I capture it to computer.

 

"Using the DV camcorder approach results in additional compression.
Analog -> M-JPEG -> MPEG2
A settop recorder allows you to go direct Analog -> MPEG2."

True, but going the computer route means that the DVD compression isn't done on the fly and there's less artifacting.

 

Has anyone tried recording LDs to a standalone DVD recorder?

 

Settop recorders have 3D comb filters that are superior to those found in consumer capture cards. Proper comb filtering is essential for a good recording of a laserdisc.

Are there pros and cons for each method? Sure.

 

"Has anyone tried recording LDs to a standalone DVD recorder?"
Yes - that's what Michael St. Clair is referring to. On the oldest DVD recorders (like the one I ran out and bought as soon as they were available) you could record at 1 hour, 2 hours or 3(?) hours per disc. 1 hour looked fine but 2 hours didn't; 3 or 4 hours looks really weird (I can't remember which it is because I only used it once and said "never again"). The newer models give you more flexibility for recording times, so if you had a 70 minute movie you could record it at 70 minutes per disc instead of the lower quality 2 hours per disc. I'm sure they do a better job of on-the-fly compression.

I prefer doing it on the computer because the compression is done over a couple of hours and the computer can make leisurely decisions as to how to compress a given frame. Plus I can put really great menus on the disc by scanning photos or grabbing frames. I can also add multiple audio tracks, including a surround-sound mix.

I have to add that in all honesty all this software gets really expensive and the average consumer would probably be nuts if he bought Adobe Premiere, Digital Performer, Photoshop, Illustrator and DVD Studio Pro to copy laserdiscs. As a musician and a teeny-tiny label owner with four artists on it, I use these programs a lot.

But if you have a miniDV camcorder already and a Mac (or a Windows machine that you can install a firewire card into), you can press DVDs for the price of the card - maybe $20-40, assuming you have a DVD-R drive. If not, a drive costs under $200 - but now you're getting close to the price of a DVD recorder.

 

Why do people want to do this? On my Sony direct view TV I see little difference in LD versus DVD quality (maybe I need a larger screen). I assume people are worried that their LD player will give out and they cannot replace it.

 

That's most of it. I DO see a big quality difference between LD and DVD, but that shouldn't exist with LD to DVD transfers; simply putting the same material on a DVD won't all of a sudden make it look better. It'd just be nice to have the old LDs saved on DVDs in case the LD hardward dies...

 

If you're looking for a great, but cheap capture solution, look at the Canopus ADVC-100. Widely regarded, good quality, and great audio sync It's firewire based, and acts like DV, so you just need to fire up your fav capture program.

 

In the end, wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to just stock up a few LD players? That's my philosophy. I've got better things to do than replicate LD's in case they don't ever appear on DVD or the format of the era. I have a stand-alone DVD recorder but I've yet to record an LD with it. I bought it to archive camcorder video and an occasional TV show/event. I've had several folks suggest to me that D-VHS is a good medium to transfer LD's to. If the next generation were to have an optical input, well that would just be jim dandy, eh? Ditto for DVD recorders too... Blanks, recorders/drives, and time doesn't seem worth it to me. I'm planning to stay orignal media for years to come myself.

 

I'd love to stick with laserdiscs, but unfortunately some of mine are succumbing to laser rot, which was an unforseen problem to me (I had experienced only one or two of these laser rot problems back in the heyday of LD). If the movie is being re-released on DVD, great. But it seems the DVD market is a lot more ignorant of old movies than the LD market was, and I don't think I'll see some of these titles anytime soon (like my "Forbidden Hollywood" box sets).

 

Having an LD player in various rooms where I want video doesn't work out very well--I'd rather make a DVD for the kids and let them use that. My ex also wants some of the LDs we bought, but doesn't have (or have room for) an LD player. I've also got a few Hi8 videotapes to convert, and some VHS items that were never released on DVD either.

 

Tim, What is laser rot? I got into LD's late and only have a few dozen or so. How can I tell if any have laser rot.

 

Sometimes you see little speckles of noise on the discs. This usually occurs towards the beginning or towards the end of a side. I think it has something to do with oxygen getting in through a less-than-perfect seal on the edges of the disc. At the least, it's a bit annoying. At the most, the disc freaks out and stops playing. And one of my Forbidden Hollywood discs actually warped for no apparent reason - I can't watch "Three On A Match" anymore, which is a deliciously racy movie from 1932.

As far as I know, this was the only fault with laserdiscs, and it gets worse with time. It's probably the same for CDs, though I only have one that it ever happened to.

 

Laser rot usually will start at the brginnings and ends of sides but will spread eventually. Later, the sound will be affected too. Pops and static will develope. Eventually the video is immensed in a blizzard of spots with assorted sound defects and the disc will freez up players at various latitudes.

Laserdiscs from before 1983 virtually all have rot. The glue they used with the early discs is the culprit. LD's were made sandwich style and as the two side were put together and glued, the air was sucked out. The early glue oxidized and released oxygen right into the vacum sealed interior. Early CD's had the same problem but the dying process was much slower.

Rough handling can break the seal of LD's and initiate rot. I've proved this to myself as I once dropped an LD that hit hard on it's edge and it got rot. Then there's the Sony LD's from the Indiana plant from the 90's which disgrace the anals of LD history. The manufacturing standards were so low that the rot rate is very high. Nearly all the rotted LD's that I have besides some "antiques" are from the notorious Sony plant. They also made discs for other labels too there, like Lumivision and other small labels. Discs from the Japanese Pioneer plant have a very low failure rate.

2 players that can minimize the effects of rot are HLD-X9 and LD-S2. The Japanese model HLD-X9, which has a red laser similar to a DVD player's, can "see through" rot fairly well till it gets very severe. Not to imply it can play these discs purr-fectly but it can play them. I have a 1981 LD that looks like blank videotape and devoid of sound when played on most LD players. My HLD-X9 plays it. The sound is messy with static and the picture is reduced to nearly B & W. It's amazing that it plays it at all. The LD-S2 has a gas laser diode that also sees through most minor rot.

Philips solved the LD glue problem at a research facility here in Tennessee in 1984. Myself, I usually shy away from used LD's that date before 1985. I usually shy away from 80's LD's period unless it's a rare title. If it wasn't for So-ny's crummy plant laser rot would be relatively uncommon.....

 

Not to be a nitpicky english teacher, but there's a very funny misspelling in your excellent post:
"Then there's the Sony LD's from the Indiana plant from the 90's which disgrace the anals of LD history."
It should be annals; however, due to the results of this pressing plant's sloppiness, we'll leave it as is.