DCC Archive Question about Everlys' Cadence material

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by guy incognito, Jan 3, 2002.

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  1. guy incognito

    guy incognito Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Mee-chigan
    Hi, new member here. :)

    I was wondering if someone could offer a recommendation (from a sound-quality standpoint) for a CD compilation covering the Everly Brothers' Cadence recordings in depth.

    Should I go with the Varese Complete Cadence Recordings set? The Bear Family Classic set? The Rhino Heartaches and Harmonies box?

    Any words of advice will be well appreciated. Thanx!
     
  2. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    Hi guy,
    Welcome aboard.

    I've heard that the Bear Family recordings are pretty good but you should probably get the advice of one of the guys on this board who knows a lot more about these recordings than I do. :D
     
  3. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    The Bear Family set does sound excellent. If you are a country music buff, you will definitely like the 3rd disc with a country music howdown featuring the Everly's with Jim Reeves, June Carter, etc.
     
  4. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    Also there is a DCC Gold disc of these recordings mastered by Steve Hoffman called "The Everly Brothers Best."
     
  5. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    Was Any of the Cadence Material recorded in stereo?&gt;
     
  6. Pat

    Pat Forum Detective

    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Mikey sez,
    Was Any of the Cadence Material recorded in stereo?

    Yes indeed! Take A Message To Mary, Poor Jenny, ('Til)I Kissed You, Let It Be Me, When Will I Be Loved and others...all True Stereo.

    I have the Varese Set which has pretty good sound (not excellent). There are a number of anomolies (Glitches) throughout, but I'm not sure if these are on the MASTER Tapes or not. I need to get "Steve's" Everlys set, I guess!
     
  7. Matt

    Matt New Member

    Location:
    Illinois
    I think a few mono versions of some Cadence recordings aren't actually first generation; dubs bounced from twin-track tapes that were the original masters.

    My memory's a bit hazy here, but I'll see if I can find the original information and post it.


    As for which collection to go with, if money's not an issue, I'd go with Bear. But, if you're on a tight budget, go with the Varese set. The Varese set is a domestic two CD set mastered by Bill Inglot and Dan Hersch, so if the sound really bothers you, you may want to do some EQ adjustments (they usually add some top and shave off some of the bass warmth, but I haven't heard the set myself, so I can't say for sure if it's the same there).

    I'd only get the Heartaches & Harmonies set if you want to cover their entire career; they don't cover the Cadence material as well as other sets.

    P.S. The DCC disc is great to have because it sounds the best. It doesn't go as in-depth in the Cadence material as the Bear or Varese sets, but it sounds beautiful with the addition of Cathy's Clown (a Warner Bros. single cut right after they left Cadence).
     
  8. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    As far as the Cadence material goes, what I'm wondering is this:

    Does there exist a twin track master of some of the MONO releases? Andy Williams was on Cadence and they found a twin track tape of "Are You Sincere" and I think "Butterlfy".

    They never used the twin track, they mixed it to mono for ALL releases, 45 and LP.

    The twin track was finally used a couple of years ago, and its great.

    Is there a chance that some of the early Everlys material exists in this form?
     
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    The Everly's Nashville recordings made before the studio converted to stereo are strictly full track mono recordings.

    The song "Problems" is a tape to tape bounce to add the loud acoustic guitar parts. That is why the sound is a bit softer than the rest of the mono recordings.
     
  10. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    I would strongly recommend the Bear Family box. Not only does it sound pretty good (not DCC quality by any means but excellent by any other standards), it also comes with a great 'book' including an esay by Colin Escott and all the recording session info + some great pics. You get the feeling that it was a real labour of love putting this set together.

    Funnily enough, the mastering is credited to Bill Inglot and Bob Jones. I guess Boppin' Bob was able to influence Bill's sound away from the Rhinophonic sound we are currently subjected to ;).

    Also, the Bear Family set includes all four of the Columbia single sides Don & Phil recorded before they signed to Cadence. I'm not sure if these are on the Varese Sarabande release but only one features on the Rhino box.

    The Rhino box is OK (if you can put up with the trademark Inglot sound) if you want to get some Warners material (including some otherwise unavailable outtakes/rarities), but does not cover the Cadence material well. Worth noting that a few of the Warner tracks are remixed :( on the Rhino box (Ebony Eyes for one - can't remember which others).

    I never get tired of that Cadence material - I can't think of a better body of work made in the history of recorded sound :eek:.
     
  11. pauljones

    pauljones Forum Chef

    Location:
    columbia, sc
    This is in reference to the Rhino Everly Brothers "Cadence Classics: Their 20 Greatest Hits". It was a Bill Inglot production, copyrighted 1985. The booklet states that all of the tracks were taken from "absolute first-generation master tapes" but I recall reading that they were actually remastered from safety copies that had never been played. My question is" are safety copies sometimes considered "first generation masters"--and are they actually? If there are two tape consoles running simultaneously, then I guess theoretically they could be. But, if the safety is a 15 ips or even 30 ips copy, then doesn't that make it at least one generation removed from the original? Any thoughts?
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    A safety is a safety: Second generation.

    When the liner notes were written for that old Rhino release, Bill Inglot had not yet found the true stash of Everly Bros. Cadence master tapes.
     
  13. Matt

    Matt New Member

    Location:
    Illinois
    Previously posted late 2000/early 2001 (most questions were never retained, only the answers)

    Q: I’m anxiously awaiting the DCC Everly Brothers release - I’ve owned the 1985 Rhino Cadence Classics CD for quite some time…Will the DCC release use the same masters mentioned in their release as the liner notes claimed exhaustive tape library research and absolute first generation master tapes?

    Steve Hoffman: Dear DWOB, Yes. Same tapes, same tearing out of hair, same everything as the Rhino folks. Being played back on a vintage Ampex 351-2 has REALLY helped the sound of some of those tapes. I hope you like it. I’ve been playing it for months, now. Cathy’s Clown is mastered directly from the Bill Porter engineered three-track original tape, same as the Rhino version. We left the twin-track material just like it was, with vocals out of the left channel, as well. Hope ya like it! SH
    (note: this was posted before Everly Brothers' Best was released; judging from Steve's post from yesterday, I'm guessing the Rhino tapes he was thinking of were the ones used for recent Rhino reissues of Everly Brothers material, not the CD that was done back in 1985.)

    ----

    Steve Hoffman: The original two-track of Cathy’s Clown has been a bit “overused,” shall we say? When Bill Porter engineered at RCA-Victor “Nashville Sound” Studios he ran a two-track as his primary tape with a three-track for a safety back-up, both mixed the same way. So, this original two-track was used for all stereo (and some mono) dubbing from the time of the recording on. That means every single tape copy ever needed was made from this tape, for all over the world. The three-track, on the other hand, was only used once in 40 years (Rhino). Much better sound, same mix!

    ---

    Steve Hoffman: The product description ain’t right. Only one track was actually cut in three-track: “Cathy’s Clown.” Everything else was either two-track stereo, twin-track stereo, or full-track mono.

    ----

    Steve Hoffman: Hi David, “Since You Broke My Heart” backing music was recorded in three-track, but when the tape was shipped to Bell Sound in New York, it was mixed to mono ONLY while adding the Everly Bros.’ vocal overdubs. Sorry. “Poor Jenny” and “Mary” were not engineered by Bill Porter (he had not come on the scene yet.) These tracks were not panned hard left and right, they were just recorded in twin-track, since they didn’t have pan pots at the studio yet! The mono versions are just bounced copy dubs of the twin-tracks rerecorded with a full-track mono head stack. Since we don’t use copies for our DCC Gold CD’s, I used the twin-track originals. You might like them that way, without the screeching high end tilt that other CD versions have =&gt;D

    ----

    Q: Unless my ears are playing tricks on me, I could swear I’m hearing a phantom center with the finger-cymbals on “Take A Message To Mary” coming from the center (or near center) and the other stuff left and right. Would this be possible in TWIN track…??.

    Steve Hoffman: Yes David, you are correct, of course. I asked Bill Porter about this once. Although he wasn’t the engineer, he said that the phantom center information was an accident. Well, it doesn’t sound like an accident to me (or you), but who knows what they were thinking or trying to do? The Everly Bros. Cadence LP that features those songs in stereo took the left channel vocal track and put it in center, then it took the right channel music and put it 90 degrees out of phase, so it would sound like electronic fake stereo in both of the channels. They did it pretty well, but I went for the first generation sound.

    [ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Camarillo ]
     
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