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Question about vinyl rip frequencies range.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by oopargentina, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. oopargentina

    oopargentina Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Argentina
    Hi there:) New here. This is Cristian from Argentina (OOPArgentina as username).
    I need input from someone with enough knowledge about this matter. Would any of you be able to help?
    The matter is: a friend of mine got and digitized (three times already) a Laura Branigan Test Pressing LP (that was recorded between 1980 & 1981, and was rejected by the Atlantic Records). Many people seem to be right about the fact that one 5 copies of it were pressed, and only one of them has the seal on the envelope saying "Rejected". Now... being this rare, we Branigan admires want to get the best quality out of it. The vinyl is warped in a section but no skips were detected, although the "almost skips" on each round during that vinyl's portion playback can be "heard", by putting more weight on the needle's tornarm's end we got rid of that almost "silent" part on each groove's round whenever the needle would go through the warped part. That's particularly noticed on side 1, not side 2.
    Now... I've been digitizing vinyls records since many years now and I'm pretty sure at this point I digitized over 1000 records by now (I'm 48 years old). I have never (ever) saw a vinyl's freq. range (tested with Spek or Audition or any other software) that gets cut at 14kHz like my friend is sending me. On the other hand, he's run some tests with other vinyls, and capturing at 48kHz, 24bit seem to produce normal, regular 20-22 kHz marks. BUT, this record in particular has the following range:
    Whole record (Spek):

    [​IMG]

    First track of the record:

    [​IMG]

    I work with a Stanton T55 USB, original cartridge.

    I'm gonna ask him which turntable & stylus he's using, although as I said before, that wouldn't be the problem, since other records's rips he's sent me have the normal freq. range. It draw my attention the fact that an old rip of the same TP's in mp3 format at 192kbps have their freq. range reach 18kHz.

    The questions are (cause he's checked all the settings already and found nothing rare):

    Is this vinyl's recording already limited to that range and nothing can do about it?
    Is there a chance something in the equipment or config is wrong in conjuction with this particular vinyl's recording?
    Could these old mp3 files have had their frequencies, by some process, have been modified and for that reason they have a larger frequencies range?
    Here are a couple of those mp3s Spek reports:


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    He's got the record, I don't. I'm kind of the man in the middle between him and this forum lol. I only have his rips (he lives in the US, I live in Argentina - He's been lent this record. He's got to return it to its owner at some point).
    BTW, here's the release (and he was the one uploading the scans recently):

    Laura Branigan's first solo album (unreleased - rejected by recording company)

    Any help on this will be much appreciated!
    Best regards everyone!


    Cristian
     
  2. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    He is sending you MP3 files? You can never be sure with MP3 files. MP3 cuts off frequencies at a certain level.
    For a 1980 album (or test pressing) it would be so unusual as to next to impossible that it would cut off at 14k. As a 1980 recording and pressing it probably was all-analog. All-analog LPs easily have response to 25k, 30k, 35k when recorded to analog or 96/24.
    The Stanton through its USB definitely will cut everything off at 24k if not 22k, because its USB DAC is 48/16 (maybe 48/24). But that's not what he's using.
    Have him record a cut from a known pre-1980 pressing all-analog LP, and a cut from this test pressing, as WAV, and have him send you the original WAV files and compare those.
     
  3. c-eling

    c-eling Fruit Juice Everywhere

    Frequency looks like Cocteau Twins-Heaven or Las Vegas :laugh:
    This may be an early mixed to digital.
     
    oopargentina and patient_ot like this.
  4. oopargentina

    oopargentina Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Argentina
    Mmm... No. I've had those mp3 files to over 2 decades now. They have skips and the sound very badly. However their frequencies are higher than the source itself (the TP). That's what has me not getting why the TP rip is giving that freq. range.
    As for the rip, it was made by an Audio Technica turntable. I should ask him which model. I just mentioned what turntable I do have and the fact that neither with this one or the ones I had before I have had rips that gave me frequencies under 20kHz. Not cut like this TP's rip anyway, and at 14kHz.
    Yes he's sent me the untouched wav, raw format. There I posted the freq. range according to Spek. It was me who saw that his raw wav file, which sounds amazing compared to my old mp3 files, have its freq. cut at 14kHz while the mp3 files I have that sound like s**t have their freq. reach 18kHz. I simply don't get it.
     
  5. oopargentina

    oopargentina Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Argentina
    Thank you both for your inputs. So according to you, it may be possible that this TP in particular may be OK the real one. I don't get why the old MP3 files, coming from the same source, have wider ranges. Unless 2 different TPs were issued (and different masters or recording processes were used), I simply can't this.
    He's sent me many tests. Any vinyl gives him regular frequencies ranges. This one is the only one that has this bizarre (to my experience) result.
     
    c-eling likes this.
  6. oopargentina

    oopargentina Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Argentina
    Another possibility could be (thinking about it now) that this one was an early badly mastered pressing. I've got word (no way to corroborate this) that another TP may be around that actually has 9 tracks instead of 8, which includes a song called "When". If this is true, maybe the mp3 files come from that source and not the one we have. This could be the answer only if there was somehow a different process when pressing the second TP with 9 songs, that somehow had a wider frequencies range. I've no way to prove this theory. Just, as I said, something that came to mind, and it certainly is a possibility. I keep on finding, though, weird to see the range this TP is giving us.
     
  7. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I see better now that the old MP3s go to 18k and this new rip goes to 14k.
    Well - there is some problem with the new rip then.
    The Stantons and Audio-Technicas use the same USB DAC as far as I know, and it is OK - but that is not relevant here except they should go to 22k or 24k.
    Either turntable sends out an equivalent signal over USB, so it is more likely he has his computer configured in a poor way.
     
    oopargentina and punkmusick like this.
  8. oopargentina

    oopargentina Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Argentina
    I thought the same thing and had him running tests and making sure his audio capture board is configured the right way, as well as the program he uses to capture the record.
    Chances are the 2nd TP that was supposedly used was the source for those mp3s. Still I refuse to believe it is normal for a vinyl record, even though an early TP, has its frequencies cut at 14kHz.
     
  9. c-eling

    c-eling Fruit Juice Everywhere

    Mixed to cassette, then pressed to vinyl. :winkgrin:
    Serious though, who knows especially from test pressings/demo's.
    Have these been counterfeited? Hard to know even about the recording/mixing stage's on something like this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
    oopargentina likes this.
  10. oopargentina

    oopargentina Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Argentina
    Oh. Never thought that could be an answer for this. Is it OK fort me to post actuall samples of the old mp3s and the newly captured audio straight from the original TP? Would that help in any way? I don't know if this is allowed in this forum. I have to take the time and read all the rules.
     

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