Question for Needledroppers (Tascam DR-05x)*

Would a portable digital recorder such as the Tascam DR-05X be a good tool for making needledrops? It has a stereo line input, can record to MicroSD card in WAV format up to 24-bit/96kHz and it has a USB port to interface with a computer.

Lately I've been having some problems making recordings on my Windows 10 laptop using a USB interface with my ART USB PhonoPlus. I'm not sure if the issues are software related, hardware related or a combination of the two, but regardless I'm limited to 16/44.1 with the present setup. The Tascam would take the burden of making recordings off the aging laptop and from there I could transfer the raw WAV files to my better desktop PC for track splitting, conversion to FLAC, tagging and any post processing,

Should I be considering other options?

 

Absolutely. I use a Tascam DR-40, which has more pro features but the same basic recording interface, and it produces wonderful needledrop transfers.

 

The portable recorder does not have a phono level input, nor does most digital recording gear. You will still need to utilize the phono preamp.

For the $120 on sale (which doesn't include an AC adapter), the price of the Tascam has to include parts like the two microphones, lcd screen, etc. Includes a guitar tuner...compromises in all to get to the price point.

If you don't need the versatility of a portable recorder, a better use of the same money would be an interface with more specialized hi-fi cred, like a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. It will have an ASIO software interface for better driver support, and has recording software included. The specs are good enough to justify using 96/24. The 2i2 has a 106dB SNR (vs 92dB dynamic range of the Tascam), and about 20x better THD+N specs.

Recording and playing WAV is almost 0 impact on a PC, and was done with 25 year old hardware. Nine Inch Nails "Downward Spiral" (1994) was mostly recorded on a Mac. Playing an MP3 takes 10x as much CPU, and encoding an MP3 10x more than that, and I can encode a 30 minute 192/24 to mp3 in 45 seconds on one core of my 10 year old Xeon workstation.

 

My only issue I had with the 2i2, which I thought was the drivers ended up being a USB issue. I installed an internal 'powered' USB port, drop-outs and issues ceased- I wasn't getting enough juice to the Focusrite

 

One of the problems I've been experiencing lately is what I can best describe as occasional stuttering or very brief gaps in the recordings. I could be wrong but I suspect it has something to do with the integrity of the USB connection and/or the signal processing by the laptop. Because the Tascam unit actually lays down the tracks internally on a MicroSD card, my thought was that it would take my laptop completely out of the equation and circumvent whatever the cause of the stuttering. A Focusrite Scarlett or similar would still require using the laptop as the recording device, no?

Also, I'm aware of the need for using a phono preamp but wouldn't that also be the case with the Focusrite?

 

Yes, I'm just reminding you that the preamp is still required, but using its analog outputs instead of USB.

One thing you can do on your laptop is to choose a different power profile. Control Panel -> Hardware and Sound -> Power options, and set it to "High Performance". The balanced, power saver, or manufacturer's power profile may be aggressively downclocking the CPU, and the transition between power states can cause latency problems. You can additionally disable WiFi. Windows 10 is terrible for any real work -- who knows if or when in the background it is uploading your captured telemetry or drive data to Microsoft, checking for and downloading updates and apps without your consent, or sharing those updates with others via it's background torrent-like service.

A better sound interface and pro software will bypass the Windows audio system and mixer - The professional ASIO software layer pipes the bit-accurate digital right from the interface to your DAW software with realtime sub-10ms latency. This solves the downsampling/resampling problems and will probably fix the stutter.

I expect the portable recorder would work fine, but might be an audio quality downgrade from even the USB sound in the ART Pre; you've just added transferring the data as an additional step in your workflow.

 

Great advice and explanation, thanks!

I'm already operating with the "high performance" power option on the laptop, so there's nothing more I can do there. The ART is capable of running solely on USB bus power but I always use it with an external AC/DC power supply.

My brother-in-law happens to have a Focusrite Scarlett something-or-other preamp (it might be a 2i2) that he occasionally uses to record himself on guitar and vocals. I know he would let me borrow it for needledrop experimentation but in the meantime I've already placed an order for the Tascam DR-05X, perhaps prematurely.

For the record, until the recent glitching, I've never been unhappy with the quality of the recordings I've made with ART USB Phono Plus at 16/44.1.

 

I needledrop to my Zoom H1 and H2 (original versions, not the newer "n" versions). You need to use a phono preamp, for the signal boost and the RIAA correction. Neither of these recorders have a true "Line In" input, only single inputs marked "Mic/Line In" which are really Mic In inputs, which usually cannot handle line level inputs and will overload with a Line level signal. I was using a $2 "headphone volume control" cable to reduce the level going in to the Zooms, and that worked fine, but seemed to be a cheap fragile cable although it never broke (but I have spares). Since then I have changed to using a "car bass volume control" which is intended to control the bass speakers in a car setup, but works fine for this and seems to be a more robust construction considering the price. Here is one example (just as example, there are many sellers, under $10 and even under $5), or search there for "car bass volume control". These things make a good inexpensive stereo attenuator anytime one is needed.

To use this, turn the record level to maximum on the Zoom or Tascam and control the input level with this.

Universal Car Audio Amplifier Bass Boost RCA Level Remote Volume Control Knob US | eBay


Unless the Zoom or Tascam models have specific separate Mic In and Line In inputs, they really have only a Mic In input no matter how it is labeled.

In my own tests of my Zooms vs. a USB connection into Windows, there is no audible difference and just about no visible difference in the waveforms. You'd be very lucky to get more than 55db S/N from the record doing a needledrop anyway.

Recording to one of these digital recorders eliminates USB and Windows problems, and frees your computer during recording.

For anyone experiencing stuttering doing a USB connection needledrop, try installing Process Lasso free version. That will likely tame Windows problems. It's free, and the default installation is fine, don't change it. If it doesn't help, uninstall it. Only the free version is needed for this use.

 

My brother-in-law just gave me his Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 to try but to download drivers, software and updates I need to first log into his Focusrite account (he forgot his password) or I have to create my own account and provide a product serial # (easy, as it's on the preamp itself) and a "bundle number" which is found inside the original box (my brother-in-law threw it out) and on the original "getting started guide" (whereabouts presently unknown).

To be continued...

 

I don't think I ever downloaded any software from Focusrite to use mine. I paid for Vinyl Studio, but I think you can use other free software to record. I think many people use Audacity.

 

I thought ASIO drivers were one of the major draws of the Focusrite!

 

An account does not seem necessary, here is a link to download the USB ASIO driver for the Scarlett 2i4 original version:

https://customer.focusrite.com/site...ads/32405/focusriteusbinstaller4.36.5-612.exe

and the link for the gen2 unit's driver, which is probably the same but has a different URL:

https://customer.focusrite.com/site...ads/32406/focusriteusbinstaller4.36.5-612.exe

 

Thanks. Out watching "the game" but will download later.

 

No problem installing the drivers and getting Windows and the recording software (Spin It Again in this case) to recognize the Focusrite device as the active USB "microphone" and sound card.

The Scarlett 2i4 inputs can only accommodate balanced mic plugs or standard 1/4" plugs. Fortunately I was able to find two RCA-to-1/4" adapters in my box of old audio stuff so I could run the turntable signal through the Focusrite.

Trying a 24/96 recording right now. So far I haven't run any stuttering or other issues and the Focusrite is running purely on USB bus power.

 

And this is probably the biggest advantage of using a standalone recorder! The simplicity of plugging in your phono amp output directly and press record. I use a Tascam DR-100MKIII and it’s been an awesome addition to my gear. Hassle free and it just works.

 

My new Tascam DR-05X should arrive in a few days and the retailer (Sweetwater) told me I can return it or exchange it hassle-free within 30 days. I'll probably keep it regardless so long as it's not defective as I have other uses for a portable digital recorder but I'm hopeful it will do a good job with my vinyl recordings.

Meanwhile, I also have the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 to play around with!

 

Looks like the DR-05X is part of the new Series of portable recorders from Tascam which enables the use of the unit as an audio interface via usb. So if you connect this to your laptop, Windows will add it as a sound source. Nice!

 

I have been using an old M-Audio Firewire Solo into an old laptop. I've found the process and all the gear tedious, though the Solo recorded pretty well. We have a lower-tier Tascam (mic/line combined jack) that I will probably use for future needledrops. I take it that would be ideal over recording directly into my Omen laptop's soundcard? (because of Mobo noise in on-board soundcards?)
Thanks @JohnO for that in-line attenuator, that would work perfectly with the Tascam.

 

The new Tascam is en route and should show up on Wednesday or so but I wanted to report on my trials with the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4.

A few days back, while in the process of digitizing the MFSL Beatles Abbey Road LP, I experienced some frustrating issues which prompted me to start this thread. Nevertheless, I was able to successfully complete the task with my ART USB Phono Plus at 16/44.1 resolution. Yesterday I hooked up my brother-in-law's Focusrite, installed the ASIO drivers and created a second digital recording of the same MoFi Beatles LP but this time at 24/96.

Today I spent a lot of time going back and forth between the two, both with a good pair of Sennheiser headphones and also listening through my full audio system. I also received a new mono LP today which I ripped with the Focusrite, only this time back at 16/44.1.

The verdict? All three sounded great with no obvious differences among them regardless of whether the recording was made with the ART USB at 16/44.1, the Focusrite at 16/44.1 or the Focusrite at 24/96. None.

I know I'm "old" and can no longer hear the high frequencies I once could but the bottom line is that for my needs and enjoyment, recording vinyl at higher than Redbook standards with pricey gear would be total overkill. That was the lesson I learned today.

Now I'm REALLY looking forward to trying the new Tascam portable recorder and seeing how it compares with the other devices.

 

If you connect things up right, you can make a simultaneous recording into the Tascam and using the Focusrite/USB. Then you can mix and match and compare those files in an audio editor. The conclusions should be interesting.

 

It would be but I'm not sure how I would go about making simultaneous recordings. The Tascam is out for delivery today.

 

Just use a couple Y cables and adapters to split the phono preamp analog output to go to both the Focusrite and the Tascam.
It may be a little nonintuitive but using two of this Y-cable, two 1/4" plugs for left/right into the Focusrite, and then, watching the left/right since the colors won't be correct, connect the free RCA left and right jacks from the Y-cables to the Tascam using an appropriate cable(s):
"1/4" Mono Plug To 2 RCA Female Adapter Cable 6"" from www.parts-express.com!

 

Ok, this is an honest not trolling question. Im still trying to figure out what people do with these needle drops and why they spend so much time making them. Making a few to experiment and play with audio, I understand.Theres also a few that might have better mastering. Its a good learning exercise, ear training and fun to play with audio. When Ive done this for clients, I use $10k worth of gear (vpi cleaning machine, vpi scoutmaster, clear audio phono preamp, crane song hedd AD converter, into a protools rig), it takes me 2-3 hours to do it right. At a minimum thats $150 of my time and likely more. When I compare common vinyl on said rig at best it will sound as good as the flac file of the same record I have.

On another threat it was implied that audio engineers who dont use 96k unless requested were just greedy and in it for the money... cause yeah, you go into audio engineering for the big bucks . Now I see lots of prople using mid level turntables, not cleaning the vinyl, using low end phono preamps, and going into portable recorders but making sure to use 24/96 as if thats the most important part of a transfer. Im just honestly asking, not trolling, why spend 3 hours doing this regularly (not once, or twice or 5 times for fun but regularly) to create a digital file that cant possibly be as good as is readily available?

 

Good questions. I can only speak for myself but first and foremost, I do not spend a lot of time making needledrops, nor do I make them at 24/96 (and based upon my experiment a few posts above, I will probably not do so going forward even though I now have the means to do so).

To be honest, I only occasionally do this, and usually it's because I want to capture a new, nearly pristine record and have it available for quick playback in the car or any other time and place it's not practical or possible to play the vinyl copy. I also sometimes digitize old records and maybe just specific songs that I don't have on CD or in cases where the vinyl mastering is much better than the CD. Last but not least, I sometimes digitize things for friends who are no longer set up for vinyl playback.

I do always clean my records prior to playing them, I do use good turntables, cartridges and styli with everything properly aligned and calibrated, and I do feel that my "low end" phono preamps are more than adequate for my needs based on my own discriminating judgment and that of virtually everyone else who's heard my needledrop or for whom I've made one. My goal, in general, is to make a decent recording in short order that sounds indistinguishable from the vinyl (to ME) on A/B comparisons through my gear. The most time-consuming part is creating accurate track splits, converting from WAV to FLAC and properly tagging the files, most of which are automated processes. In cases where there are offensive pops and clicks, I might run a quick automated sweep with ClickRepair at a low setting although I tend to leave things alone for the most part.

I find theses tasks fun and rewarding and I don't allow myself to get too anal about any of this stuff. For a reality check, every so often I'll pull out one of my many late '80s homemade mix cassette tapes sourced from vinyl which still sound very satisfactory.

 

Well, some people are of the "look at the overall picture" type people, and some are the "look at the details" kind of people. I am of the latter.