Question for Needledroppers (Tascam DR-05x)*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by SteelyNJ, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I suspect the receiver is processing the two sources differently for playback. How are you playing back your digital recording?
     
  2. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Also, make sure all “effects” (including equalization) are off on the Tascam, both while recording and playing back.
     
  3. RockNRod

    RockNRod Forum Resident

    Location:
    Green Bay, WI
    In this scenario the headphones are connected to the receiver, so all analog. Then comparing it realtime while recording to the Tascam using the headphone out jack on the side of the unit. So, maybe I need to compare it to the actual wav file post saved. Maybe the side headphone jack isn't a true realtime analog to digital representation of the wave file.

    Like I mentioned earlier I will compare to my previous pci card, which is ultimately my real test. Similar to how you had created the 5 files for us to compare the various analog to digital converters.
     
  4. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I don’t know how or why the Tascam would be responsible for an audible lack of bass with the equalizer and other effects bypassed. Nothing like that in my brief experiences with the device.
     
  5. RockNRod

    RockNRod Forum Resident

    Location:
    Green Bay, WI
    Hopefully,this weekend I will have more time to dig deeper and do some comparison using my ADS speakers vs headphones. My experience is that you are never going to be able to capture a true representation of the analog experience, but these converters get you very close.
     
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  6. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Here are two 24/96 samples of "Come Together" from the MFSL vinyl version of Abbey Road: Beatles Samples.zip
    One was made with the Tascam via MicroSD, the other with the Focusrite via USB. This time I didn't label them. Plenty of fat, deep bass in both samples and no appreciable difference to my ears.
     
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  7. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    For kicks and because there is nothing on TV, here is the same segment at 96/24 from my original first pressing US 45, although mine has a matrix ending with "F3 #2" which is not yet documented on this page
    The Beatles - Something / Come Together
    I bought it in Oct 1969 (I guess), so it's mine and will always sound good to me. Definitely not mint but not bad. Stanton 500 at 3 grams, anything better or lighter is noisier. Direct into Zoom H1 through my attenuator cable noted above. No NR. (Cart->preamp->cable->Zoom H1)
    Wikisend: free file sharing service
     
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  8. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Nothing on TV, LOL!
    Your '69 45 sounds really good. I chose the MFSL LP version with its noticeably inflated low end in response to @RockNRod's comments about a perceived lack of bass from the Tascam.

    I checked my original '69 US 45 and it, too, has matrices that I couldn't find on Discogs. "Something" has a matrix ending with "F3" and "Come Together" has a matrix ending with "F12" (and maybe something faint after it that I can't read).
     
  9. Eyke42

    Eyke42 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I know I'm late for the party, but I want to thank you guys for all the helpful info. I do needledrops because my Pioneer PL550 is manual only and PITA when it's in one room and the main speakers are in an adjoining room. Also, I can just sit back and have foobar2K play one vinyl rip after another. Years ago I purchased an e-mu 0404 PCIe card and it did an great job recording my records. I started at 16/44.1 and then settled on 24/48 based on threads at The Trader's Den.

    I upgraded from my AthlonII X2, 4GB system, which could not keep up with digital recording under Win10, to a Ryzen 5, 16GB system. After installing the latest Win10 build, the e-mu would not record, thanks Micro$oft. Creative also discontinued support for these cards, which is a shame because it's a nice card and I like the built in DSP for tone control. I can still play thru it and out to my main system, but not record.

    Reading reviews on Amazon, with the obligatory grains of salt, did not instill much confidence in the various A/Ds offered by Rega, NAD, Behringer, et. al., lots of issues with USB and Win10 it seems along with less than helpful support; that and the limitation of 16/44.1 interfaces. I like recording at 24/48.

    I'm going to pop for the Tascam 05x, which is on sale for $119. I may use the USB interface to route from my, new to me, NAD 1700 pre-amp and the desktop, but I like the option of using the memory card when Micro$oft hoses the USB audio interface, yet again. Thanks to SteelyNJ for the link to the Reference Manual which verified I can use a line out from the NAD. Being able to do remote recordings is just icing on the cake.

    Again, thanks for all the helpful info.

    Cheers!
     
    SteelyNJ likes this.
  10. sdonline

    sdonline Active Member

    Location:
    India
    Not been to this forum for a long time. Just happen to return today on this forum with two wonderful news - one this thread and the one with this alert message "You have been awarded a trophy: 1 Year Anniversary".

    This option of handheld is biting me for long. It's unfortunate that I landed late on this thread, so your shared link of the needle drops is no more active. So what I gathered from your feedback is that:

    01. Tascam DR-05x and ADC devices generates same sound quality non-distinguishable needle drops. Long time back I got a couple of needle drops generated using a SONY hand held device, and found it to be crystal clear with huge gain which is not to my liking, and importantly lacking that deep fuller bass. I hope you have tested the sound on a good pair of floorstanders or bookshelf speakers, and found no issues with less bass on Tascam DR-05X.

    02. Was wishing the needle drops of Tascam DR-05X to be better than low-mid budget ADC like Focusrite 2i4/2i2, but it's not then as per your findings. Still, Tascam DR-05x is at par with your mentioned ADC devices is a relief. So, not for better sounding but for the alternative setup, when we need to bypass the PC in the vinyl transfer capture process. To have this portable facility is also a great thing and handy.

    My Query:
    01. Old PC with Windows 7 - will ASIO works? Or Windows 10 is a must for it. Then a new PC will be required, if Windows 10 is mandatory.
    02. What are the options and setup procedure for TT Out --> Phono Preamp --> Tascam DR-05x Line In connection and gain settings. How to control the Line-IN gain of the TASCAM DR05X , if the external Phono Preamp do not have any gain control on it? Isn't TASCAM is equipped with a recording/line in gain control like the ADCs usually have on them?
    03. Is there any way out to share the needle drops again, so that I can listen to them and compare Tascam with the ADC devices? I will be obliged.

    Thanks,
    Swapan, India.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  11. stetsonic

    stetsonic Forum Resident

    Location:
    Finland
    Don't worry about ASIO drivers if all you're recording is just needledrops. ASIO is necessary to achieve low latency, and higher latency becomes a problem only if you need to record yourself playing or singing to a backing track. You simply don't need to sync a solo recording to anything.

    Tascam DR-05X doesn't seem to have a way to adjust the input volume of its EXT-IN (quote from the manual):
    On the other hand, if your sound source is from a line level output this shouldn't be a problem?
     
    sdonline likes this.
  12. Drew769

    Drew769 Buyer of s*** I never knew I lacked

    Location:
    NJ
    I have been using Vinyl studio on my MacBook Pro 2010 model to do all of my needle drops. I run a line level output from my preamp into a 2-1 RCA cord, into the MBP mic in, and use the MBP’s onboard ADC for the conversion. It’s easy, and doesn’t sound half bad. I tried a separate ADC from Schitt, and it was horrible - worse than the MBP’s sound card ADC.

    Has anyone compared budget ADCs with some of the more premium ones like the Mytek Brooklyn ADC or the Ayre QA-7 ADC? There are also Mytek 24/96 and 192/24 ADCs but they don’t have a USB out. I’m not sure I’m willing to shell out $2k to do needle drops, but curious nevertheless.
     
    c-eling likes this.
  13. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    I don't want to have to re-do a 1000+ transfers all over again :laugh:
    If my 2i2 ever poops out I may try something a little upstream, till then I've been quite happy with it :)
     
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  14. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I will point out again - I did earlier in the thread - that the DR-05x may overload with a high line level signal. The DR-05x does have its own "recording level" control, but the signal may overload it before that control. You could use that control to set levels that look good on the meters, but you could be setting levels of an already overloaded signal. Just because some people have not run into this problem, it does exist, and is mentioned in the manual now as shown above. (The identical problem is not mentioned in the DR-05, non-"x" previous version, manual as far as I know.)
    The simple inexpensive solution is the "car volume control" from the auction site or other, under $10 US, ships from china worldwide. That is used as a simple passive noiseless attenuator to reduce the signal before it goes into the DR-05x, preventing an overload. The "car volume control" is adjustable itself. You can start with it at the halfway setting like 50%, and if that is not enough, set it lower to 40% or 30%. It doesn't have those numbers, it has only marks, just like a rotary volume control.




    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
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  15. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I made comparable needle drops with a Focusrite and the Tascam and found no appreciable difference. The Tascam is small, portable and fairly simple to operate, if that's meaningful to you. No lack of bass with either device. Sound was virtually indistinguishable from the live vinyl through headphones and speakers, especially at 24 bits. Asio drivers are irrelevant when bypassing the PC and recording to the MicroSD card with the Tascam, my preferred method. @JohnO covered the line-in volume situation nicely above. The Tascam has multiple ways of setting and controlling recording levels, both manually and automatically, and for me there were no issues. If your phono preamp output is excessively "hot" it's possible you might have to attenuate it before the signals enter the Tascam. Regarding the previously posted needle drops, if they were mine I'll look for them when I get a chance and re-post links, if possible. Congrats on your virtual trophy!
     
  16. Drew769

    Drew769 Buyer of s*** I never knew I lacked

    Location:
    NJ
    Can I input a line level signal via RCA into the 2i2, and then output via USB to my MacBook to run through vinyl studio?
     
  17. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    :agree: 1/4
    I use a mono lp to set L/R balance, the gain controls are pretty touchy :)
     
  18. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Yes, they are. Another reason I prefer using the Tascam Dr-05x to the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4.
     
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  19. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Another relatively inexpensive option is the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD for $70 right now from their site, it's been around for a long time, built in phono preamp on the line level RCA inputs that you can select via Windows, 24/96, optical I/O, etc ... I just got it and mainly just use it as part of my turntable test setup to check tonearm/cartridge resonance, and frequency response, and help optimize azimuth, so haven't critically listened to the recordings, but it seems OK. You can always use your own phono preamp with it instead...

    [​IMG]
     
  20. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
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  21. ledsox

    ledsox Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Thanks for posting this. I'm ooking to get back to needledropping after my HHB BurnIT bit it.
    Want to keep it simple so I guess this Zoom and an adapter would work. My Onkyo reciever has a phone pre so I would use the tape out.
    Something like this?
    ComprehensiveStandard Series 3.5mm Stereo Mini Plug To 2 RCA Plugs Audio Cable (6')
     
  22. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
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  23. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    What software do you use? Audacity? I know it’s free but I always felt it was cumbersome for digitizing albums. Until recently I used Spin It Again (old software from Acoustica) but it can no longer access the database for album track and artist lookup so it’s become almost worthless.
     
  24. ledsox

    ledsox Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Yes, Audacity for now. I should probably step that up too but I do a lot of editing and it very familiar.
    How does the Tascam do with the batteries? Wondering if I should grab an adapter as well for the Zoom.
     
  25. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I bought an offbrand adapter for my Zoom but it gave a hum in recording when batteries did not. I use good NiMH low-discharge rechargeables. That can record for maybe 10 hours. Then swap in a charged set of the same batteries. I now also have a DR-05 (not newer "x") and it's the same, a fully charged set of the batteries lasts at least 10 hours for recordings. That is, over 10 hours of recording.
     
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