Question for Steve - Re: Shure M44 cartridge with "N" stylus

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by RetroSmith, Jun 12, 2004.

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  1. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967) Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Coast
    Question for Steve:

    Steve, if you dont mind, let me ask you something.

    You know that thanks to you, I recently got the Dual 510 with the Shure M44 cart with the "N" stylus.

    I'm thrilled how good it makes my old 60s 45s sound.

    Yesterday, just for Giggles, I put on a couple of old Capitol Lps of The Lettermen to see how it would handle them.

    WOW!! It sounded terriffic. The sound was "alive" . It sounds better than my dedicated Lp table, a Rotel with a Sumiko Blue Point cart.

    Heres my question.....Am I harming my LPs in any way by playing them with the N stylus?

    Any help you can give will be appreciated.

    Many thanks

    Mikey (just home from the Beach!)

    Anybody else out there feel free to chime in as well.
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Mikey,

    No you aren't harming your groove(s). This needle is basically "floating" over most of the parts of the groove that the elliptical would be hitting, That's why even when you play worn records with this tip they will (might) sound un-scratched. I learned about the conical tip from old-time engineers at KRLA and KLAC where I used to work. Plastic 45's stood up to "back-cuing" much better with the conical tip, and it's easier on the records; perfect for preserving my rarest 45's.

    HOWEVER, I think that a true elliptical tip will track certain LP's better in some cases. So, try both!
     
  3. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967) Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Coast
    Sounds great.

    Thanks for the quick answer Steve!! i really love the sound of this cart, for some reason. I know its "mid end" but I swear it sounds nicer than the Sumiko. The strings on those Lettermen Lps really sound alive with the M44.

    Thanks again!!

    Mikey
     
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    I use it to play all my 45's and 33's on my vintage system. It cooks!
     
  5. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    How about changing the thread title to something more meaningful - like 'Question for Steve - re: Shure M44 cartridge with "N" stylus'. That would be helpful.
     
  6. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967) Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Coast
    A litte late now, no?
     
  7. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member

    Location:
    ....
    It's never too late for Google! ;)
     
  8. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steve,

    When you worked in radio, using this cart, was "cue-burn" ever a problem?

    Evan
     
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    See, that's the thing. My station used M44-E's for LP's, they thought those sounded the best. I had to special order the conical tips for my personal use. So, yes, I used them and it protected the records from cue-burn.
     
  10. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    So you would literally change the cartridge when it was your shift, and then back when it was over? Wild!

    Evan
     
  11. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I thank the Gorts - I was hoping they would read my post, as I know it was out of your hands mikey5967. Perhaps you'll be more descriptive in future Mr. mikey?
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Exactly. I played a lot of my own records and didn't want to take a chance..
     
  13. Damián

    Damián Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain now
    I understand DJs do that often- I'm talking about club DJs. Many have their own favorite cart they prefer to spin with, so they just have them mounted on a headshell and swap them before starting a set (nevermind keeping a few spares ready to go in case a stylus gets busted).

    Is this what you did Steve, or did you not have a removable headshell to work with (ie. did you have to fiddle with the little screws and align every single day :eek:?).

    Damn, that was one picky question.
     
  14. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff

    Location:
    US
    With an M44, you'd just slide out the "E" stylus and slide in the "N". I used to do that with my grandfather's M44, but with the 78RPM stylus. Only had to make sure I turned down the volume first, or I'd launch the woofer cones across the room. :D
     
  15. Damián

    Damián Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain now
    Ah, you're right. I do have an M55E myself and recall the stylus assembly is the same shape & size as the N44s. In fact I'll probably be trying the conical tip next, when the time comes to replace the stylus. The cart itself does actually sound quite good, .. in spite of being 30 years old, or maybe because of it.
     
  16. Tetrack

    Tetrack Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scotland, UK.
    What about this M44-G, a lower tracking (max 1.5) cart. Would the combination of the Conical tip and lower tracking force be even kinder on vinyl?.

    SHURE M44-G
     
  17. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Not really; a good firm "plant" in the groove is needed. Too light and mistracking could occur. Depends on your tone arm, etc...
     
  18. Tetrack

    Tetrack Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scotland, UK.
    Ok, got it. :thumbsup:
     
  19. Tom Daly

    Tom Daly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Missouri
    Club DJs & Conical styli

    Many club DJs today use conical styli for back-cues and "scratching," as the conical styli by design can track the record with higher tracking forces and is "kinder" to the grooves (although the DJs may not be; some of them are BRUTAL on vinyl!) :cry: . Some conical styli can track as heavy as 7 grams without damage to the grooves, although I don't recommend such tracking forces on styrene injection-pressed 45s! It's difficult to dub a styrene 45 with bottom groove damage, but it CAN be done. In fact, I've done it successfully many times, and at least two of those dubs has seen commercial releases!
     
  20. Damián

    Damián Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain now
    Funny you mention that.. I've mentioned it before, but I've been thinking for some time about getting a Pickering NP/AC cart for some time. Fairly inexpensive ($19.95 iirc) and will track at up to 7 grams.

    I'd set it up on a second turntable, expressly for the purpose of playing those LPs in my collection that are too trashed to enjoy on my 'everyday' rig. At 7 g, it should plow right thru any crap that's in the grooves.

    Is this cart the one you refer to, by any chance?
     
  21. Tom Daly

    Tom Daly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Missouri
    Stanton 500A is the industry standard for conical, but it's almost the same cartridge as the Pickering NP/AC (Stanton & Pickering are essentially the same company). I watched a History Channel special called "Save Our Sounds," about how the Smithsonian & Library of Congress are rapidly dubbing lacquers and other valuable rarities to digital before the sources deteriorate. In their turnables are Stanton 500A cartridges. 3rd party companies also make a variety of styli for this model, from 4 mil at the large end all the way down. Since I tinker with 78 rpm discs, I have a variety of "truncated" tips that track the sidewalls quite nicely, but won't play the bottom of the groove that's been destroyed by steel needles. People my age (50) think it's nice to have a wind-up Victrola on which to play their Rama 78 of "Gee" by The Crows, not realizing that the acoustic reproducers on Victrolas are only designed to play acoustically recorded discs, not electrical recordings.

    Anyway, either a Stanton 500A or a Pickering NP/AC will do the job. The Pickering model, being designed for record changers, tracks at 7g because some changers like Garrard Model A, Garrard 40B and those in KLH compacts require heavier tracking forces. Pickering designed that cartridge as the ideal replacement in those changers.
     
  22. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967) Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Coast
    Hey Tom Daly!!!

    How are you buddy!!!! Say hi to Bill B for me....

    Mikey
     
  23. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967) Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Coast
    Tom, I recenty bought a Shure MS78 cart to transfer some 78s.

    Whats your opinion of this cart?

    thanks,

    Mikey
     
  24. Tom Daly

    Tom Daly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Missouri
    Not quite as durable as a Stanton 680 series, but sounds nice. Just remember: 78 rpm discs don't have RIAA compensation in the grooves, so you have to plug your cartridge into a high impedance microphone input to dub 78s correctly, otherwise you'll get boomy bass and excess turntable rumble.
     
  25. Damián

    Damián Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain now
    Hmm. I've got a small mixer with low impedance mic preamps (which are otherwise good- so I've been told). Is there any way to raise the input Z (without hacking into the unit)?
     
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