SH Spotlight QUESTION: Vintage Van Gelder BLUE NOTE LPs, stereo or mono titles. Which are better?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Cassius, Aug 20, 2007.

  1. Another Side

    Another Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Virtually all of the 1500 and 4000 series LP's were recorded either at the Hackensack studio or the Englewood Cliffs studio. Go here:

    http://www.jazzdisco.org/bluenote/
     
  2. AudioGirl

    AudioGirl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    why did he record blue notes in stereo for five long years before they actually issue an album in stereo?
     
  3. Another Side

    Another Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I'm not sure that that's the case. Blue Note started putting out stereo LP's by 1959 at the latest, afaik. But the reason they recorded in stereo and no LP's were put out until much later is that they were recorded in stereo to accommodate the reel to reel market. See this post from Steve: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=1110005&postcount=19
     
    McLover likes this.
  4. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 Uh Huh

    Location:
    OH
    No. Stereo didn't exist when those sessions took place (1949 and 1950)
     
  5. g23

    g23 New Member

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    man, you gotta love the information on this forum. we can all secretly laugh at those with their expensive original issue Beach Boys lps and mono blue notes when mr hoffman has given us the true story.
     
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Uh, have you ever seen a Blue Note Stereo Open Reel tape from 1957-61?
     
  7. Another Side

    Another Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I knew that was coming. :laugh:

    Ok, so Blue Note wasn't keen on getting into the open reel market. Why did they record binauraly in 1957 and not put out stereo LP's until 1958 or 1959?
     
  8. Pinknik

    Pinknik Senior Member

    When "binaural" is used in this thread, I assume we're not talking dummy head recordings, so do we just mean 2 mics to 2 tracks?
     
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    I thought you knew. I have no idea. There are Blue Note albums from the 1960's that were only issued in mono. Why? The music is in stereo.

    I have no idea of the workings of the mind of A. L.

    My point was, just because a Blue Note album was issued in mono only in 1960, collectors only seem to want the music reissued in mono today, even though the actual stereo is wonderful.

    Do we have any idea why that is?
     
  10. Another Side

    Another Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    True enough. In my above post I should have said "in stereo". :thumbsup:
     
  11. Another Side

    Another Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I know why they only want the mono LP's. It's just a collector's fetish like anything else. These LP's were not pressed in huge quantities, so they are somewhat rare.

    But you're right, I have no idea why the Lions put out some of the stereo recorded albums only in mono, while others received stereo releases.
     
  12. kudesai

    kudesai New Member

    Location:
    usa
    I raised this question in the "Blue Train" thread.
    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=123791

    I suspect that there are collectors with mono only systems. That means a mono cartridge on their turntable. So, this Bud's for them, so to speak. These reissues are targeted to a small enough group to begin with, so targeting the mono collector might make sense to them. Just a guess. (edit: Another Side beat me to it).

    As for why Rudy might record on two tracks, well he was a gear guy, right?. So, it may have been foresight on his part or just more goodies for the studio. Perhaps he wanted to issue them in stereo, but Lion and/or Wolff did not see it as marketable enough at the time? I am talking about the stuff that was not reased as stereo until 1960 or so (i.e. Blue Train). Just another guess.
     
  13. Pinknik

    Pinknik Senior Member

    What kind of mic set-up was used? Looks like it might be a close spaced pair in the studio photo, but I can't tell for sure. Or maybe they just treated it like two track, the way some band did their first two albums (sorry).* Thanks.

    *http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=1116
     
  14. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Hey, hi!
    :wave:
     
  15. Metoo

    Metoo Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain (EU)
    The same reason why many prefer solely stereo mixes to surround and stereo mixes on their discs today? ;)

    Sorry, I just couldn't help saying this. :D
     
  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    I don't see, sorry. I am talking about original mixes, not later remixes.
     
  17. Metoo

    Metoo Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain (EU)
    You're right in pointing out that difference, Steve. Yet, there are some things in common in both cases:

    a) in both cases the albums were originally released in a format (mono in this case, stereo in my example)

    b) the multichannel versions (stereo in the case we are talking about here) benefit from one being able to hear more into the recording because some things aren't piled up on top of the others. The same usually happens in surround: given that the instruments are more spread out you can notice more detail in the playing of each instrument.

    and, c) the recordings we are mentioning here were originally recorded in stereo. I understand and completely agree with the thrill of the type of recording RVG was after. Yet, most of the stereo pop/rock (or even jazz in certain cases) recordings of most recent years were originally recorded to multitrack recorders, from which - as I see it - the resulting stereo or surround mixes are simply 'interpretations'.

    Finally, I highlighted the word and between stereo and surround to signal that I have nothing against the stereo mixes. Just that well-made surround mixes give you a look into the recording that is impossible with the still piled up imaging delivered by created-from-scratch stereo. So, I see them as a different - often interesting - take on a recording. But I am all for having the stereo mix also. In fact, whenever present I listen to both depending on the moment.

    Get my point? :)
     
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Binaural is what they called stereo back in the day. The tape box would be marked either MONAURAL for mono or BINAURAL. Some studios marked as STEREOPHONIC or DUAL CHANNEL or TWIN CHANNEL.

    All meant the same thing: Stereo-roonie.:)
     
  19. adhoc

    adhoc Gentlemen Prefer Stereo

    Hmm, I thought binaural referred to a specific recording process in which a dummy head was utilised for recordings that would then have ideal playback over headphones. Hmmm. :)
     
  20. william shears

    william shears Forum Resident

    Location:
    new zealand
    Good shot of Coltrane in Englewood 1964. Mic placement quite clear on this one..
     

    Attached Files:

  21. indy mike

    indy mike Forum Pest

    These days (starting in the 1970s) binaural refers to the mics/dummy head recording technique to get a particular spatial effect, but way back when multitrack recordings first started being made the 2 channel recordings had a wide variety of names like Steve mentioned.
     
  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Not a Neumann in sight.
     
  23. Dan C

    Dan C Forum Fotographer

    Location:
    The West
    Can you see what he was using? They look pretty small to me. :confused:

    dan c
     
  24. Solaris

    Solaris a bullet in flight

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    They ain't Neumanns whatever they are. Neumanns are mounted differently (straight up or straight down) because of the position of the diaphragm in the headshell.

    edit: I'm referring to U47s, 48s, 67s, etc.
     
  25. Dan C

    Dan C Forum Fotographer

    Location:
    The West
    Yeah, these look almost like hand-held dynamics. Of course I'm sure they aren't, they just don't look familiar from what I've seen in photos of that era.

    dan c
     

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