Hi, again I’m speaking as someone who doesn’t own a sub (yet!) but most of what I’ve read online seems to suggest that getting as big a sub as you can afford brings greater reward as they tend to go lower and be faster - it just may need turning down compared to a bigger room! That said I can’t imaging the smallest REL is a slouch either, especially if your not listening to a lot electronic music which has a lot of proper sub bass.
I went for the T5i in my 3m x 3m listening room to partner my P3ESR 40th Anniversary's. It seems about right, I would not want to go smaller or larger... This video makes an interesting point about a small sub driver integrating better with mains with smaller mid range units:-
John Hunter stated in the recent webinar that the main difference between the T7i and lower priced T5i and Tzero is of course the front firing woofer which makes it faster than the lower priced models.
My T/9i has made a significant difference in my system. Bass lines are more present without getting in the way at all, if that makes sense. But the biggest impact (no pun intended) seems to be on bass drums and large floor toms. The sub is really rounding out those low notes, making those big drums sound very very realistic. I’m a huge fan of TOOL and the new album has just the most ridiculous drumming I’ve ever heard, and the T9 just makes Danny’s kick drum immense.
Does anybody else's REL hum when you get close to it? There is lo hum coming from my T5i even when the hi level cable is not connect to it. It's not coming from the driver it's a hum within the unit maybe the amp...
No, my T7i doesn't hum when the cable is connected. It does hum loudly when cable is not connected to my amp.
If its not coming from the driver....it's a mechanical hum...not sure what's inside there,but would likely be a transformer that needs it's mounting scews tightened up....just checked,it's actually a nut
I think, I should write something in this thread. In the last 2 months i went from owning : SB-12 plus to REL T9i to 2xREL T9i to REL T9i & REL S/3 and now 2xREL S/3. I can say a little bit about the differences. Talking about bass extension: In my room, the same position, SB-12 plus is equal to T9i: -3dB at 24Hz. The S/3 goes down faster: -3dB at 30Hz. the same image but with SVS REL-SVS (Dip in the 70Hz is caused by different placement) Yes You can hear it. Its a little sad, because You pay more, but get less. Happily S/3 makes up for it in speed. That speed manifests itself by adding more details in the lower end. What S3 adds in this respect is kinda magical, You can hear subtle bass cues, things like vibrating drum membrane, something I never heard before in Hi-Fi system. In this video Danny Richie nicely explains what a fast Subwoofer means: Also I had the gain at about 9 o'clock on the T9i, and on the S/3 the gain had to be at 13 to have the same volume. For those of You, that own double subs. Here is a track that i found has stereo bass: Glass Animals - Wyrd My impressions: On the SVS I just hear Bass. On the T9i I hear two massive drums, one on the left and one on the right. On the S/3 I can hear also the vibrations of the drum membrane. Would I recommend You all sell the T subs and get the S? If You value bass extensions and volume more than speed, then No. If You want more details and are ready to spend about 2x more. Then sure, go for it! I an certain that the S/3 isn't my end game sub. Now I want to try REL G series and JL Audio Fathom subs. @avanti1960 This dip in the 100Hz range is caused by sbir: Speaker Boundary Interference Response SBIR GIK Acoustics You can use Your stereo subwoofers to fix this (just don't be afraid to set the crossover high): The Elephant In The Control Room
Curious, when comparing stereo bass music using SVS and T9i, was SVS a single sub connected via sub out vs two T9i using high level input? What was the crossover points for either? For me, I only get a dominant bass out of front, left of middle. No other dominant big bass coming from right. Using my living room system and headset, same for me. This is the one correct? YouTube
Nice to have some impressions of the S series as well. Love the article by Carl Tatz that you mentioned . I also have a question for you...when you went from 1 T9i to a stereo pair, how would you describe the change (not only with regards to bass, but with regards to soundstage and other differences) ? The people at Rel always state that going from 1 to 2 subs almost doubles the level of enhancement, but I am still very sceptic of this. Would you agree with them that the difference is big ?
I use low level connection on all subs. When i had one sub, crossover was set at about 50-60Hz. Now that i use stereo subs, so there is no problem with localization i crossover them higher at ~100Hz. To get rid of that 100Hz dip from front wall SBIR. Sorry Youtube is too compressed to hear this effect. You need To use flac files. I'm talking about 0:20 moment. On stereo subs You can clearly hear that there are 2 separate big drums panned left and right. Normally Mixing engineers downmix sub bass frequencies to mono for them to have more umph (2 speakers playing instead of just one). But here its not, and it sounds great. I also have this album on Vinyl, and there its downmixed to mono and the effect is gone.
The difference is quite big. Its not 2x better tho, maybe about 35%. Things like more headroom and better dynamics are a given. But best thing is the Soundstage. It is really enhanced on many albums, but not all. Its easier to feel the venue the musicians where playing in (on classical live music). But a lot of music has the sub bass in mono, so the effect is destroyed. Also like I said, You can crossover them higher. Don't worry about them being heard as something separate from the main speakers. And fix some room acoustic issues. After experiencing stereo subs, I will never go back to single sub now.
I just tried using Amazon music, streamed in CD quality. Yeah, with my living room system, which using a 15" on the left and 10" on the right, right after 20 seconds, when turning the volume louder, I can hear louder drum left of middle, a bit higher up and further back, and loud, but not as loud on the right and a bit closer, but lower in height. May be the 15" is causing the drum on the left to be stronger and taller in height.
Maybe Your right sub doesn't go as low? When i used mismatched subs, even the T9i and S3 together, the effect was greatly reduced. "The magic" happens, when You have the same sub left and right. And To feel the music venue You really NEED 2 of the same. Also, try switching left output with right and check if You still hear it mostly on the left.
Yeah, can't really find another matching used 15" in a good price anymore....That one is discontinued and the new version that replaces it, Paradigm Prestige 2000SW 15", retails for $3999. I am not getting another 15" anytime soon.....
Thanks for the suggestion! I added height to the right 10" sub (using 2 Auralex Acoustics SubDude), adjust the angle slightly towards me, and increased the volume by 1.5 dB. More balanced now. It is fun playing the song loud.
nicely done. i guess it depends on your preferences for a sub and your system / room but as you go up in range the sub can easily dominate the sound- maybe you like that . especially the JL audio fathom which can turn a large room into a submarine in the middle of a depth charge attack. i would love to be able to run the crossovers higher - currently set ~ 45 Hz. but the sound suffers when i do this. the RELs are better than most but overlapping just does not work in my room and system.
I have run a single sub in the past and have tried just one T9i in my current setup. The value of adding another depends on your crossover setting and the power of the first sub relative to your system. If your crossover is set relatively low- 80 Hz is pushing it- more like 75 and lower- then bass truly will not be directional. One sub will give you a big sound stage and seem to be centered between your main speakers. If you run them higher for some reason then they may provide more value as a stereo pair, especially if one sub is barely keeping up with the rest of your system. In my room I would rate the second sub as ~ 50% better because the single T9i needs help to fill the room.
be careful trying to assume another sub will shift the image to the center. in my room the image with certain frequencies is dominant left regardless of one or two subs because of room shape. i bought a second sub trying to get things perfectly centered and it did not work. also you may need to level match the sound so that each one is playing equal level at your listening seat- not just the volume control.
Yeah, my living room is bass unfriendly due to irregular shapes, like slope ceiling on the left, big opening on the right, etc. I have balance issue above 50 Hz. Below that is more balanced.
I like flat response and dynamics. And that's what better sub gives You. This thing: "big sub will dominate Your room" is just false. It will dominate only when You let it. When You setup it wrong or set it to high. Rel sadly doesn't make servo controlled subs. And those are the fastest and most accurate. That's Why I'm interested in JL.
The soundstage and spatial cues is what I am interested in with 2 subs (bass is good enough with one) ! But if I understand you correctly, these spatial cues are not enhanced on recordings where the sub bass is summoned to mono ? I never listen to classical, but I do listen to well recorded jazz and every other possible genre, would you say that the majority of albums (well recorded,not talking about mainstream pop) have the sub bass in mono or not ?
when i said dominate possibly too strong of a word. however if your sub is over powered for your room and system it could be possible not to arrive at a perfect level setting. on one sub i owned it was either too loud that it did dominate the sound or too soft that you never heard it. with the JL fathom it was so powerful and went so low and deep it created this ultra low sound and pressure wave even at a very low volume and in a very large room. it made you aware of its presence all the time and in an unnatural way.
