Questions for REL Subwoofer Owners

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by avanti1960, May 4, 2020.

  1. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    "If you get confused, listen to the music play"

     
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  2. Alright4now

    Alright4now Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    Don’t overthink it. Let it play when you leave the house. And then listen to lotsa music.
     
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  3. iluzun

    iluzun Forum Resident

    Bought mine used, so haven’t worried to much about ‘breakin’. Been playing Steve Wilson’s The Future Bites, particularly the track 12 Things I Forgot.
    Gain up to 20 for a bit, now crusin’ up @ 25…. well, it’s a big room, 16’ vaulted ceilings and I got the Rel raised up to a corner. I swear when I first raised the gain to 20, the soft intro on 12 Things I Forgot, shifted over to the center of the soundstage from a bit left. When I jacked the gain to 25, the far right Zu DW now seems to have more fully ‘joined the band’. Maybe I’m hearing things, or it just has taken a bit of juice to make the T9 come out and play… (-; Been over 20yrs since I swore off home theater, as a rats nest, since I owned a sub.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  4. LeBud

    LeBud Born to be mild

    Location:
    Ottawa
    Nice ! Never seen a Rel in any other color except black or white .

     
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  5. Dr Hollywood

    Dr Hollywood Active Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Right, that's the way I been letting it play a lot for now (xover and gain set high).
    REL says though that no matter how long you play it at moderate volumes, it won't be broken in properly until you play it loud. So I am waiting for that before tuning (living in an apartment).

    That being said, I already did spend quite some time trying to find the perfect spot in the corner for the T/7i, according to REL’s guides. You know, that perfect spot, within an inch or so, when the bass becomes deeper and the air around the subwoofer is energized? Can’t say I found such a spot :/
     
  6. Dr Hollywood

    Dr Hollywood Active Member

    Location:
    Germany
    So today I had a few hours to crank the volume up, and then continued my quest for the perfect spot to put the T/7i.
    Now, I guess it is normal that the bass is more pronounced in corners and close to the walls? It is way deeper, and even clearer (in regards to hearing the heartbeat quality of the “Sneakers” bass drum), closer to the wall than anything I could reproduce in my listening spot.
    My 14x13 ft (4x4m) room opens up to another room that size behind my listening position, maybe it’s a difficult spot to get good bass?
     
  7. bever70

    bever70 Let No-one Live Rent Free in Your Head!

    Location:
    Belgium
    Maybe your listening spot is in a room null where you loose some (or a lot of) bass?
    Maybe experiment with moving your listening spot a bit if you have the option?
     
  8. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    It should be louder against the wall.
    it acts as a wave guide and you have a higher concentration of reflections/modes.
    Modes in rectangular room
    Tripper
    Perfect for the Dead reference above
    Franklin's Tower


    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Dr Hollywood

    Dr Hollywood Active Member

    Location:
    Germany
    I walked around the room listening for the changes in bass – it is less than at the listening spot left from it and a tiny bit more in front of it, but most all around the walls (ca. 50cm from them).
    Here is a sketch and photo of my listening room to get a better idea. The room opens up behind the sofa through (always open) double doors into another room of the same size. Front wall is brick, the others drywall. The sliding wall panels in front of the front wall are double planked drywall filled with rock wool.
    Not many options for other listening spots. Tried (preliminary, no fine tuning) to put the subwoofer in the right front corner and the right corner behind me, but didn't notice any obvious difference in bass output.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Dr Hollywood

    Dr Hollywood Active Member

    Location:
    Germany
    This is a neat graphic – thank you :) Any idea what happens when the front wall is at an angle and has a weird wall protrusion in the corner the sub stands, and when the room opens up behind and to the left (see amateurish illustration above in my last post)?
     
  11. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    Nice set-up.
    Can you put it in the other corner?
    And point it to the opposite diagonal corner.
    Only a foot out to start with.
    Then listen and move it out in small increments and angle it slightly towards the couch.
    Small changes make a big difference.

    did you phase it?

    A side advantage it is further from the turntable.
     
  12. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    cool
     
  13. Dr Hollywood

    Dr Hollywood Active Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Alright, will give it a shot tonight. I have tried that corner with the T/5x before I returned it, but not yet with the T/7i.
    There’s almost no wiggle room in that corner because of the radiator in front of the window, and the rail for my sliding wall panels on the floor in front of the wall, but maybe I’m lucky.
    Sorry if my posts sound like I’m expecting someone to tell me where my sub would sound best – I know that’s impossible. But any advice helps so thank you.
    Will keep you updated how it goes.
     
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  14. WayneC

    WayneC Hopelessly addicted to vinyl

    Location:
    England
    I have 212SE's.
    Here's a general tip for REL owners. Check how tight the drive unit mounting bolts are from time to time.... After a year of use, on music not films, I was amazed to find all the bolts had loosened themselves by about 3/4 of a turn! Even the smaller allen bolts holding the back panel on had loosened. Its now once a year general maintenance for me.
    Try it, you might be surprised.
     
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  15. Dr Hollywood

    Dr Hollywood Active Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Okay, so two hours of listening to first a one minute clip of Sneakers track 4 on repeat, then a 10 second clip on endless repeat, I believe I found a position where I can hear the heartbeat-quality “boBooom boBooom” beat instead of just “boom boom” – although my mind might be playing tricks on me on the verge of insanity. I stopped there.

    Let’s say I continue where I left off tomorrow with a rested mind and do indeed hear “the heartbeat” again – what to listen for next, for further improvement?
    Or is this where I stop and move on to crossover and gain fine-tuning?

    Btw I moved the T/7i to the right corner and probed all sorts of spots there, and for a moment thought I heard a “heartbeat” when switching phase to 180. But it was all too fuzzy and not clearly better, so I moved it back to the left corner, where I am hearing the “heartbeat” now at phase 0, but not really at phase 180 – does that mean the phase is set correctly?

    For a moment I tested the sub in the middle of my L/R speakers just before the center speaker (which is disabled btw). I felt the vibrations transferred through my wobbly wooden floor into my feet which helped to hear the "heartbeat" – all of the bass, actually – rather distinctly, but more with my feet than my ears, so I disregarded this spot.
     
  16. bever70

    bever70 Let No-one Live Rent Free in Your Head!

    Location:
    Belgium
    Take your time! Don't rush it. Switch the sneakers track with some others from time to time to stop it from driving you mad ;).
    If you hear the heartbeat, phase is correct. You can check correct phase using any other recording with a steady heavy low beat. Standing above the Rel, the right phase setting will make bass sound louder.
     
  17. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    :righton:

    I've checked mine every 6 months or so and they always need a cinch.
    It does make a difference.
     
  18. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    I checked phase using the NIOSH SPL app looking at the Z weighted instantaneous value.
    It was 6 dB higher when correct (0 for me).

    NIOSH Sound Level Meter App | NIOSH | CDC

    I could not hear a big difference next to it?
    With the REL high level imo it should be 0 most of the time.
     
  19. Dr Hollywood

    Dr Hollywood Active Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Thank you. Will have to try with other songs – the "Speakers" track didn’t show any significant difference between phase settings.
    Probably because my main speakers don't contribute much if anything to the deep bass drum (therefore can't cancel the sound at wrong phase setting)?
     
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  20. Dr Hollywood

    Dr Hollywood Active Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Inspired by the REW posts in this thread a few pages back I tried some basic measurement with the T/7i as it is in my room now (pretty close to how I'd leave it).
    I don't have a calibrated microphone and used the one built in my MacBook Air, hoping to still get an idea from the reading. I did both a 20-200hz frequency sweep and a pink noise measurement.

    Lots of ups and downs but nothing really worrisome except for the 50hz dip?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    if you don't see a change between 0 and 180 you may need to increase xover a bit.
    It should add (in phase) get louder or
    Subtract (out of phase) get quieter.

    The difference may be subtle, 3 dB, at the threshold of perception for some.

    But it's not volume as much as coherence, sharpness, focus.
     
  22. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    The pink noise should look like this
    -20 dB from 100 to 10,000
    In general looks good

    try to lower gain a bit
    Lower xover more and redo run

    REW can phase also
    Do 2 runs, same volume, same sweep
    One at 0 and one at 180

    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Dr Hollywood

    Dr Hollywood Active Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Thanks for the advice, I did what you told me to and now can clearly see that phase 0 produces a louder bass response than phase 180.
    I've also adjusted gain and crossover a little (for now 15 clicks each) and now it’s more “in line”.

    What’s still bothering me, though, is that whichever settings I dial in, there is always the dip at 50hz (which is quite audible during the sweep); also around 120-150hz. Is this a room mode? Does this mean I have to find another position for the sub after all?
    There are also the dips at 300, 600 and 1200hz – are these some resonances because of the doubling of frequencies?

    [​IMG]
     
  24. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    looking good but 20 db divisions does not have enough resolution. try increasing the vertical scale into 5 db increment.
     
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  25. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    that thing is going to give someone a seizure !
     
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