Finally installed a new hard drive on my old laptop that has both mic and speaker jacks to let you create a pink noise loop for sound card calibration. The measurements below show a quick pass at optimizing the RELt9i's (purple curve) vs. the Harbeth's playing on their own (yellow curve). It may not look like much but the RELs are adding a lot of bass to the sound. I still have more work to do including moving the main speakers around slightly to help eliminate the big dip between 70Hz and 110Hz. FYI the smart phone apps are fairly worthless. I tried to level match the left right subs with it and the left sub needed to be turned up 4 clicks to match the output of the right sub. Anyone serious about sub integration should invest in some RTA hardware (Microphone, pink noise CD) as well as some software e.g. True RTA or REW (free). You may get decent sound by ear but chances are that it will be far from the best possible.
That does seem high and whilst I don't know the current price I'm using Kimber cable and from my experience speakers do need music pumping through them before they sound their best.
Looks good! Good to see the Rel filling in the low frequencies nicely. I'm hesitant in getting a mic to open another can of worms though. Lol.
Looking good. I'm also a bit hesitant like @Douglas Lam for fear of opening a huge can of worms....but I know my bass is farm from the best possible. Even with just using the smart phone app you had referenced earlier. I haven't had proper time to really work with it though...having a 3 year old and NO school or daycare open means playing loud pink noise is pretty much a non starter. I have been contemplating hiring an acoustician to take some measurements and see what they recommend, but I'd also like to learn myself. Is the learning curve steep with these programs and how to use them effectively? Whenever I start reading about REW either my head starts to spin or I fall asleep.
using rta software is easy once you start playing with it. the key is to focus on the basic steps needed to measure frequency response in real time. the other software features can seem daunting but aren't really required. i suggest downloading and playing with REW to get started. launch it and open an RTA window and click on the red "record" button. make sure your internal microphone is active and level set to max and you will see real time RTA graphics taking shape on the screen. Use settings / smothing to make the gibberish more legible, i use 1/6 or 1/12 octave smoothing. after that look into getting some pink noise and a decent but inexpensive usb mic and you are off and running. the pink noise does not need to be loud, i use my typical moderate loud listening volume and it works well, possibly better to shape the sound at levels you listen to. RTA Window
thanks for this. i'll try to re-set up my REL tonight using this track kind of funny, this drum they mention is barely audible with my Sennheiser HD600's
Thanks a lot man, I really appreciate it! I've got a good 30 second FLAC full band pink noise file that I use looped. I'll take a look into microphones and start playing around with REW.
Although I don't have a REL subwoofer (it was a recommendation by someone on the SHF forum while shopping around), I did enjoy reading about getting things right with placement and settings, according to the rest the audio components and room set-up. It is an art, and patience is significant. When the balance comes around to that 'sweet spot' that you have worked to achieve, it is a tremendous feeling. I had a Hsu sub for years , but lost it in an electrical storm over a year ago-- a fried capacitor- problem which will be worked out at some point. Not having that low frequency element was killing me, so I got something a little different. It is delicate, more complex, a much heavier sub with a bigger amp, and is not ported. I can say that after much tweaking, and back-breaking placement, I am very pleased. It is probably the finest sound I've attained with the rest of my system yet (Marantz/Kef gear). The crossover is set around 80Hz with the gain at slightly over half, producing a very tight, controlled low end that complements the mains. The majority of playback is 2.1, almost all music. Currently playing John Mayall's Jazz/Blues Fusion which was well recorded, has exceptional low end, and sounds sweet. Great thread, loved reading all the posts... good listening, and cheers.
I noticed the same low bass volume as compared to other instruments in the song..But still can hear and sense it in my living room setup. In my setup, the drum seem to come from far back, a bit over to the right of center. Is this how you hear it?
i only played it on these headphones out of curiosity. whatever frequency this drum is at, these headphones don't seem to dig that deep. i'll check it out later
Good lookin response....i'm sure I've missed it in here somewhere,but what crossover and slope numbers are you using?I'm at 40hz 4th order here...seems pretty ideal....your thoughts?
thanks G. the crossovers are at 5 clicks tuned by ear. works out to be 41hz or so if the click stops are equal. and yes the REL crossovers are 4th order 24 db per octave. are you running your main speakers through a crossover?
Very slightly to the right of center yes. But volume is not really low on my setup. And you should hear a 'ba-doom ba-doom' (not just a boooom boooom), where 'ba' is the initial stroke of the drum and 'doom' is the resonating of the 2nd skin (outer skin of the drum).
it is amazing what a few inches away or closer to the back wall does to the sound. 8 inches was the starting point but i heard a definite peak or sharpness to some bass notes. they sounded too tight and heavg handed. move the subs out 4 inches (12 in from wall) and those same notes are cleaner, smoother and balanced while not losing any impact. i love these subs.
Yes, ba-doom, ba-doom, very distinct initial hit and subsequent resonents. I can hear and feel the bass. But, for me, it is at a more subtle volume. For example, as compared to the English horn(?) starting around 1:05.
If you hear the ba-doom your subs are in the right position. When I was playing around with placement, I found out that only a few inches of change resulted in a long booooom instead of the desired ba-doom.
I thought I'd post some measurement results, since I'm going to start dabbling in that area. These are just taken with an iOS app, so they're not going to be the most accurate...but definitely a jumping off point to get an idea of what the subs are doing. I ordered the USB mic that miniDSP sells, and will start playing around with REW when that arrives. The first image is just the speakers, second is with the speakers and REL. It looks like my speakers are dropping off around the low 50s or so and have a big peak at 83 followed by a steep drop off. I'm new to this measurement game, and am going to play around with my "speakers only" placement and measurements a little bit and then try adding the REL back once they are optimised. I think I need to concentrate on that 83hz peak and the subsequent dip, but I'm new to this so if you have any pointers let me know!
My subs are not really in the best positions. : ) I used the room eq function (multi measurements using Paradigm mic and software) for both right and left subs. That helped providing flat responses to my seating position. In addition to that, my AV preamp room eq function further matches the timing of my subs with my speakers.
Haha thanks! Yeah I ordered a T/5i from REL last night. I've been wanting more bass in my system and had been looking at more expensive speakers to fill in the void but the price to jump up was a lot more than adding a sub. I'm also trying out a pair of KEF R300's and I like them a lot. They may end up replacing my B&W 804's. I think standmounts might be a better fit in my system. And the only thing lacking in standmounts is the 30-50Hz range. I can hear the bass disappear on jazz recordings when the upright bass walks down the frequency range. Whether I keep the R300's or not, the sub I expect will stay and open up the options in the standmount range. I loved everything I read about the REL. Musicality. AB amplifiers. Sealed. I love that I can connect them from the speaker terminals on my amp, as I was unsuccessful in adding my current Velodyne HT sub via my preamp. It sounds boomy and slow anyways. While the REL website recommended a pair of T/7i's, I wasn't ready to pony up 2k for a pair. I also live in an apartment and don't want to shake the walls. Well, I don't want to shake my neighbors walls.
