Questions re Pioneer PLX-1000 set-up

Your question had me searching for my original PLX-1000 mat to check this out. I think if you do this, you might want to turn the Pioneer mat upside down to better support the GEM Dandy mat.

I have an old "Platter Mater" mat that I tried previously on the PLX-1000, but I thought it was too dark sounding. After reading this thread, I tried the "Platter Matter" with the GEM Dandy together and the combination sounds better than either one by itself!

Thanks to all for prompting me to try this! I think I can put those headshell spacers away now!

 

Nice one 33....I'll have to try the mat upside down then.

 

Hi all,

Took delivery of the funk achromat the other day and have used it together with the stock PLX mat.

Cannot say that the sound is better but certainly a bit bassier. However, the cartridge is now not level with the platter although the tonearm is. I'm not sure if this is specific to my kit/set-up. Have ordered another achromat to see if I can raise the platter further and improve the sound even more.

(Getting a bit frustrated and fed up with getting this right, especially watching a Michael Farmer video where he demonstrated the correct angle of the stylus (92 degrees) using a powerful microscope for $200. He claims a level tonearm is not enough to correctly adjust the VTA and that he angle of the stylus is the important part - he's prob right; sounds logical. However, am NOT getting a $200 microscope to properly check it...)

I am going to take some pictures of my set-up and upload and maybe people can do the same? If two people use the same kit then perhaps angles etc of tonearm and so on should be similar? Maybe I'm wrong here.

Will post as soon as I can.

 

I would concentrate on getting the top/bottom of the headshell level, and not even look at the arm. If the headshell is level, the cartridge should be too. After getting the headshell level, then you can gradually lower/raise the tonearm until the sound snaps into place. One of the strengths of this type of table is being able to change the VTA/SRA so effortlessly.

I wouldn't even try to dial in the VTA/SRA until you had at least 40 hours on the cartridge.

As far as Mr Fremer's 92 degrees, that would be great in a perfect world, but that angle is going to change with every different thickness LP you play. This assuming that the stylus is mounted properly on it's cantilever too.

I'm in the middle of changing my cartridge set up, so I won't be able to post pictures until after that.

A lot of folks use different alignments, so if you see the cartridge sitting in a different position than yours, don't sweat it.

 

Good post.

If you read the Fremer article he says somewhere (perhaps in the comments) that if your setup sounds ok, don't mess with it just to achieve 92°.

I would also add that if your setup doesn't sound ok, it doesn't mean that adjusting the VTA/SRA to achieve 92° will suddenly cure the problem. It may be something else.

 

Hi 33na3rd/Stefan - thanks both for your comments!

The sound is not terrible - I may be looking for something better sounding even if I am happy with the way it is now. I think the "TT tweaking" has gone to my head...

I would be interested (especially) to hear from members who have my kit (Ortofon SH-4 and AT150MLX) and what kind of "mods" they have.

Could I just leave the stock Pioneer rubber mat (maybe with a thin felt on top) ? I have the VTA set to zero as the cartridge is one of the lower ones (in comparison to say the Ortofon Red) so I cannot lower it any further. I have a "bubble": Turntable Tonearm Headshell Cartridge Stylus Azimuth VTA Set Up Device mini 8mm Bubble Spirit Level so should I place this one on the headshell and if it is level thenI should perhaps leave it as is.

I am also interested to find different mats that are compatible with the stock Pioneer rubber mat (if I am to keep that one on the PLX) but I have found that a lot of the mats on the market are wider than the PLX mat - does anyone have a suggestion for a good mat that will fit the rubber mat nicely? Have heard of the Origin Live mat but am not sure that will fir the stock PLX mat.

Thanks again all and sorry for the question dump!

 

Actually, VTA does go a 'little' below zero.

 

Yes, have it set to the below zero mark.

 

Have looked at the Way mat at Herbie's. Looks promising as I can choose the thickness up to 7mm.

Will have a think.

 

Hi All,

Ok, have taken a few pictures of my current set-up:

- stock PLX rubber mat
- Project stock (thin) felt mat
- VTA set to below zero

Is the cartridge considered level based on this shot?
http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s604/Nubben101/IMG_1514_zpsfjhfrp0d.jpg

And, based on these shots you may be able to see that the tonearm is slanting slightly downwards but the headshell and cartridge seem level (or even slightly tilting upwards!).
http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s604/Nubben101/IMG_1517_zpsoxgg0e3q.jpg
http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s604/Nubben101/IMG_1516_zpsuqaaigpj.jpg

I am considering getting the Way II 5 or 6mm mat to beef up the sound a bit.

Any thoughts?

Many thanks!

 

It may be just the optics but it almost looks like you're running the AT "tail down" meaning the back end is lower. Some folks prefer it this way since it reduces AT's inherent brightness a bit.

 

The bubble level appears to be showing that the headshell is level.

I can't tell from the other shots. As Stefan mentioned, lens perspective can exaggerate angles. One thing that you can try, is placing a lined index card behind the cartridge/headshell. It's very easy to see if the cartridge is level using the parallel lines printed on the card. I have a device made of clear acrylic with printed grid lines that serves the same purpose, except you can place it in front of the cartridge/headshell. The index card is much cheaper.

If I were going to buy one of the Herbies mats for my PLX-1000, I would buy the Way II 7.25mm thick 285mm OD and be done with it. Just one mat. The only reason that I'm stacking mine is because they are already in the house.

 

Stefan: thanks for your reply. Even if the tonearm is not lowered down and needle hitting the groove, the backwards tilting is still there. I cannot adjust this tilt. I've always thought it looked odd but once headshell has been locked in to the tonearm this is what it looks like. Do you think there's something wrong with the headshell and/or tonearm? Also, did not know the ATs are considered to be bright! I think you have the same cartridge in your set-up? Could you recommend another cartridge with a warmer sound? Does not have to be AT.

33na3rd: Thanks for your input! Wouldn't the 7mm mat create issues when playing 180g vinyl. The two mats you have - are they combined more than 7mm and if so do you have any problem playing thicker records?

Many thanks!

 

The tonearm on my PLX-1000 shows the same abnormalities as yours. As long as the bearing housing and headshell are level to the plater, everything will play as it should. The arms are a little goofy on this table, but they work.....

My stacked mats total 8mm. For some reason, all of the cartridges I've tried the PLX-1000 with have been shorties. I've had to use use headshell spacers with all of them when I was running the GEM Dandy alone. With 8mm of mat, my Shure MX97XE is level with the arm height set at zero, with no headshell spacers.

To be honest, most of my 180g LP's get played on my Michell Gyro SE/Rega RB-600/Grace F-9E. Two tables for different moods. Yes, I'm moody!

 

I was thinking about more about the whole PLX-1000 tonearm height adjustment issue this morning. I wrote both US and Canadian Pioneer support with a couple of questions. It'll be interesting to see if they reply. In the meantime, when I get home this evening I must see if I can verify the following.

The cartridge height range in the PLX-1000 manual is given as going from 19mm for the 0 setting to 25mm for the 6 setting.

In checking old SL-1200 manuals on vinylengine.com, I note that the SL-1200 MKII manual gave the range as 15-21mm. As far as I know, the MKII came with the thicker 1/4"/6mm rubber mat (which I bought from KAB last summer).
The SL-1200 MK5 manual gives a range of 17-23mm. I believe by that time, Technics had moved to a thinner 1/8"/8mm mat, which is similar to the rubber mat that ships with the PLX-1000.

So since the PLX-1000 also ships with a felt DJ slipmat that's about 2mm thick (actually about 1.5mm when I measured mine with a caliper), I'm wondering if Pioneer used that thin slipmat as the reference for their 19-25mm range, especially given that they're targeting the DJ market. Thus the cartridge height range using the 4mm mat they ship with the PLX-1000 would actually be 17-23, the same as the SL-1200 MK5. Similarly, if one uses the old MKII 6mm mat, the range would be as it was on the MKII, 15-21mm.

Thus, taking some popular cartridges as a guide,here are the height settings that would (in theory and if my supposition is right) achieve a level cartridge.

Denon Dl-304, most recent Shure cartridges ~16mm height
2mm slipmat (19-25mm range) - too thin on its own with the cartridge tail up by 3 mm.
4mm rubber mat (17-23mm range) - too thin on its own with the cartridge tail up by 1mm.
6mm rubber mat (15-21mm range) - setting 1
7mm Herbie's (14-20mm range) - setting 2
10mm combo of 6 & 4mm mats (11-17mm range) - setting 5

Denon DL-301MK2, 17mm height
2mm slipmat (19-25mm range) - too thin on its own with the cartridge tail up by 2 mm.
4mm rubber mat (17-23mm range) - setting 0
6mm rubber mat (15-21mm range) - setting 2
7mm Herbie's (14-20mm range) - setting 3
10mm combo of 6 & 4mm mats (11-17mm range) - setting 6

Denon DL-110, AT440MLa or b, AT150MLX, ~17.3 -17.5mm height
2mm slipmat (19-25mm range) - too thin on its own with the cartridge tail up by 1.3-1.5 mm.
4mm rubber mat (17-23mm range) - setting 0.3-0.5
6mm rubber mat (15-21mm range) - setting 2.3-2.5
7mm Herbie's (14-20mm range) - setting 3.3 - 3.5
10mm combo of 6 & 4mm mats (11-17mm range) - 0, but tail down by 0.3-0.5mm)

Ortofon OM or 2M cartridge families, 18.5mm height
2mm slipmat (19-25mm range) - too thin on its own unless you run with the cartridge slightly tail up.
4mm rubber mat (17-23mm range) - setting 1.5
6mm rubber mat (15-21mm range) - setting 3.5
7mm Herbie's (14-20mm range) - setting 4.5
10mm combo of 6 & 4mm mats (11-17mm range) - setting 0, but tail down by 1.5mm)

Anyway, some food for thought.

 

Well done, Sir!

 

Thanks. As I wrote above, it's only a supposition, but it does make sense. I might add that someone with only the two stock mats that come with the PLX-1000 could pretty much achieve the original mat thickness of the SL-1200 MKII by placint the felt mat on the turntable first and then topping it with the rubber mat. That would just about provide the same 1/4"/6mm thickness and a cartridge height range of 15-21mm, which matches most popular cartridges much better (except for 14mm high Rega cartridges, and I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone using a Rega cart on a non-Rega tt!).

I should also add that these numbers don't take record thickness into account. I usually raise my tonearm by 1 on the dial when playing a 180g-200g pressing, or by about 0.5 if it's a medium thickness LP (amazing how much variation there is on 180g pressing thickness).

 

With my PLX and AT150MLX, I'm using a rubber mat that's a little bit thicker than the stock mat. I thought I measured it at 4mm once. I keep the arm height set at the lowest possible setting and it all seems to be good. The arm looks close to parallel, maybe actually cart side a tad lower than tail end but it's hard to tell with the naked eye. It's very close to parallel anyway

 

I've settled (for now at least) on the stock rubber mat (upside down) with my GEM Dandy on top (7 0r 8mm thickness total??), my tonearm height is set at 1mm I think (cart is Ortofon 2M Blue in Jelco HS-25 headshell) - Unless I've got skewed eyesight, the arm looks parallel to me (I'll check again when I go home, that's when I'll probably change things around again!).

I also own a Ortofon Nightclub 11 (tracking at 3.1 g) which I use with an Arkiv stylus bought this week....Really good fun with 12" singles, obviously not as subtle as the 2M Blue, bit concerned about the heavier tracking weight although Ortofon assures me that no premature wear to vinyl will happen.

To be honest there looks to be a slight bend in the cantilever to the left (looking from the cartridge underneath) with the 2M Blue (apparently this is unusually common if you search around online)....Sounds fine but I still have niggling doubts about damaging my records (I've ordered a new magnifying glass to check things out properly) - I might change to the DJ cart in the interim I dunno yet....

 

Nubben, just a thought;-

I too bought an Ortofon SH-4 when I originally bought my PLX....I couldn't get it level properly to adjust the azimuth (it wouldn't twist enough clockwise to enable my spirit level to read dead centre).....Looking at the SH-4 shell from the front it transpired that there was a slight 'warp' that was causing the tilt.

Probably not the case but I would check to see that your headshell is completely horizontal (in your case)....Mine was definitely a manufacturing fault and I should've sent it back (not a problem for me now as I use a Jelco HS-25 shell which allows separate azimuth adjustment anyway).

 

Hi Darren - how did you detect the "warp"?

Also, when you say "twist clockwise" are you referring to twisting the cartridge in the headshell clockwise to align it properly?

Many thanks!

 

Separate question for everyone - are Goldring and Grado MMs good cartridges compared to the ATs?

Many tanks

 

Hello again Nubben

To my eye (at least) holding the SH-4 and examining from the front and looking down towards the top location pin (the top pin that goes into the collar of the tone arm), the flat top edge of the headshell looks a little 'twisted' in relation to the top pin.

Difficult to explain but another way of looking at it is maybe the 3 pin socket wasn't bonded to the shell part completely straight (i.e. the top pin isn't at 90 degrees to the shell top making azimuth adjustment impossible.

Of course another sample of PLX might have had a little more play in the collar so that my warped SH-4 could be twisted a bit more to achieve a satisfactory reading on the spirit level....I just didn't have this option on my particular sample.

 

Perhaps I don't think I've made myself clear here Nubben....What I meant was simply attaching the SH-4 headshell to the tone arm and tightening it into the locking collar (the cartridge didn't need to be attached), the spirit level would always show that the headshell was tilting down on the left side (looking at the tone arm from the front).

As you tighten the collar thread you can sometimes firmly grip the headshell whilst screwing the collar down and 'coax' the headshell into a level position....They wasn't enough play on my particular PLX's collar to be able to 'twist' the headshell to give a perfect spirit level reading - On examining the headshell you could see that the top pin connector at the back wasn't at 90 degrees to the top of the shell (it looks like a 'twist' or 'warp' viewing from back to front).

 

One of my Ortofon SH-4 is warped as well.
I haven't checked the other one, because at this point I'm not sure that I want to know.