Raspberry Pi or small PC

Here’s a recipe I have yet to see bested for the price or otherwise:

Raspberry Pi running Jriver Media Center > USB cable > your favorite Dac > your preamp

jriver has a great app for smartphones and tablets to control it all effortlessly.

 

You have pretty much covered your needs. I would add you don't need a extra power supply for hats you've mentioned. Both of them are powered through the Rpi. A simple case for the Rpi + Hat is nice but not necessary. Good Luck with your project!

 

Audio through USB equals noise injected to your DAC as well. Unless you find a solution to mitigate noise or jitter it is a zero sum game. Which is beyond the scope of this thread though, and frankly above my pay grade too. Moreover, OP clearly stated not being interested in a NAS-solution, and wished to keep things simple with a Rpi.

 

Thank you both AP1 and RicTic, I guess one obvious improvement would be replacing HDD by SSD and thus removing moving parts = reducing noise. In terms of feeding the DAC thru USB or SPDIF I was leaning towards the latter (even though it[s a more expensive solution since it requires an additional piece of hardware, the HAT) because I've read in several places that RPi USB output is very noisy. I am not an engineer, just a music enthusiast, I can't elaborate on this really.

Thank you both again, really appreciate it

 

There are no issues with USB on an RPI 4. At all.

 

If you watch the video up in this thread, you can see where the reviewer said that the USB to a DAC input on his PeachTree preamp sounded very good - actually better than several other options, including a DAC card on the RPI.

FWIW, I got my RPI 4 running yesterday and I used the USB output to my DAC input on my Marantz PM-7005 integrated amp and it sounded very good to these old ears. I am in the process of switching from Volumio to Moode because the Volumio app on my Samsung Galaxy phone was slow as heck. I am hoping the Moode (web-based) GUI is faster.

 

Mac mini will outperform any Win PC or other device im mu opinion and experience.
Just remember Windows Sucks!

 

Volumio app? I use any web browser on any device on the network to control Volumio. I have to admit that I struggle to see things clearly on my smart phone so I use a cheap 10 inch tablet (and occasionally my laptop) which is on the same network.

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=volumio.browser.Volumio

Truth be told - it sucks. Granted I have a huge library, but I though that once it built that library, it would be fine but every time I click on "Artists" or "Albums", it takes several minutes for anything to show up. As it is now, I am better off moving back to my Linux laptop.

If I want to use a web browser on my laptop, what is the URL for my RPI4? Is it 192.168.211.1 or http://volumio.local ? I'll have to try that later. Maybe that will work.

 

My experience....
I used a MacMini to run Spotify and Tidal for a while. I used USB out into a Yggdrasil DAC. The sound was decent but because it was an older Mac, to make it run headless with an iPad was kind of a cobblejob.

Then a few years ago I bought a RPi3 and one of the digital out HATs - I think it was a digi pro or something, used Volumio or Rune as the OS and ran coax out into the DAC. This was a noticeable sonic improvement over the Mac. I experimented with using an iPad and an Android tablet to control it and this can be where some people get lost because you may need a renderer like BubbleUpNp to get everything to communicate. Airplay is supposed to work with Mac, but again I had troubles due to the age of the old iPad. I settled on Android and generally it worked but I had a certain ritual to get everything to work each time I wanted to play music. This is not normal, but it can take a while to get your RPi set up so that it works the way that you expect. Don’t let that discourage you. The info is out there and you can find people to help guide you through it.

Fast forward to early 2020... I made the jump to the PI2AES HAT. This was the biggest sonic boost yet. It may have been partly from using a BNC or AES/EBU output to DAC, but that HAT is really clean sounding and micro detail was also starting to become more noticeable. I also canned Tidal. And tried Qobuz. I don’t know why but Qobuz sounds better to me. I also changed the Pi OS to MOoDE. I’ve read where some people think that is one of the best sounding PI Distros.

A couple of months ago I decided to try ROON. So I brought my Mac Mini back into the picture to use as my RoonCore and I changed my RPi distro to RopieeXL. This didn’t degrade the sound any, plus it was just a smoother, more enjoyable/reliable experience using my iPad as a controller. I love this now.

btw, the USB on RPi3 is pretty crap. My understanding is that was the main improvement with the latest RPi4. That doesn’t make much difference to me now as I normally use AES/EBU, but if I ever went back to USB, I’d buy a new one.

So if you figure out the price of a new RPi4 and a PI2AES, you are <$300 all in, including a new case and power supply. I haven’t listened to the megabuck streamers, but I’ve read from many that thinks this RPi combo sounds at least as good. (And many of those use a modified RPI and proprietary software). So go spend $300 on this combo and have fun. It’s cheaper than a new audiophool power cable and will probably give you a hell of a lot more enjoyment.

 

This is statement is true for the reviewer in question. Unfortunately, when it comes to jitter and RFI both are measurable entities, and both are problematic in their own way when it comes to computer audio playback. My point is that there is a next level when it comes to computer audio and you can squeeze out more good sound from a Rpi. Furthermore, I clearly stated that this is beyond the scope of this thread. As always in audio, if it's sounds fine, it's fine until you become aware of the next level.

Cool that you got your Rpi 4 up and running. Good luck with distrohopping. I can highly recommend Gentooplayer.

 

I've been using volumio for years... and I had no idea there was an app for it. Learn something new every day.

I have a 4TB drive connected to my RPI4... consisting of very few mp3's, some flac, lots of uncompressed wav and dsd files. It takes about 10 minutes to rerun the database if I copy some fresh files over from my laptop and forget to plug it back into the RPI4 running volumio before it's booted. If I keep it plugged in it doesn't have to rerun after reboot

http://volumio.local or 192.168.211.1 is used during initial set up (first boot). It should lead you thru a menu that helps with initial configuration. It should work on any browser on any device on the network. After you reboot it it will grab an ip address from the router on your home network. How do you find out that ip address?

I use an app on my android phone and android tablet which gives me the ip address of every device on the network. It's basically an ARP (address resolution protocol) utility. It's called "Net Analyzer".. when I run "LAN Scan" it gives me the IP address of 192.168.1.80 and says "Raspberry PI Foundation" next to it... That is the device running volumio. Obviously that IP address will be different for you. But I can control Volumio from any device on the with a web browser.

 

Glad to find this thread and some great info contained. I've been running multiple Squeezebox devices via LMS on my desktop PC for several years now, and I've been very pleased with the setup. One thing I dislike is having my desktop on 24/7 so if I'm understanding some of the options listed in this thread correctly I could get a RPI & load LMS on it, connect it to my router, transfer my music to external HD and connect that to the RPI via USB? I run/control the Squeezebox devices from iPeng or the device itself so I don't see any need for the PC to necessarily be running when I'm listening. When I want to add music to the library or perform backups, there are ways to connect to the RPI/HD from my desktop PC via networking to perform the transfers? The router is essentially in a closet away from my PC so remote connection to the RPI/HD would be preferred.

 

LMS is supported by many OS' for the Rpi. I have no experience using LMS hence the partial answer.

 

Simple answer, yes.

Very good results doing this as well.

Even better buy two RPI4'S and use one for LMS and one as your endpoint. Remote access to PcP is a given, after an initial external wired set up.

 

Jitter is real in any DAC that does not use ASRC to re-clock incoming stream.
USB interface uses local clock in DAC exclusively and thus does not suffer from externally induced jitter.
Proper DAC has enough filtering to avoid propagation of noise from digital to analog circuits. If it does not - it is a poorly designed and you will be better getting a different one. Not all expensive DACs are well designed.

 

Seriously, show me the noise and jitter when you're using USB to a decent modern DAC.

There is none unless you're unwise enough to literally do stuff like listen to music at 100% CPU and GPU load on an i7 using RCA cables like I did here with an old ASUS XONAR DAC:
MEASUREMENTS: Asus XONAR Essence One [Updated June 25, 2013]

Likewise, measurements back in 2018 also show that we can introduce noise but again, this is with extreme circumstances with i7 CPU and nVidia GTX1080 GPU at full load!
MEASUREMENTS: Intel i7 PC and Raspberry Pi 3 B+ Audio Streamer - XLR / RCA, Noise and Jitter. Do digital transports / streamers really make a difference? Do USB cables?

Notice that jitter is unaffected by the computer anyways with even a 2013 TEAC UD-501 via USB.

Bottom line is that the computer/Pi actually makes little difference assuming you're using it "normally" with asynchronous USB DACs these days. I don't understand why "audiophiles" continue to perpetuate issues like "noise" or "jitter" with no real evidence that this makes a significant different in actual use! As if these things are all that significant.

Of course, if I were a DAC manufacturer, I might be interested in throwing shade on various concerns and maybe perpetuate "fear, uncertainty, and doubt" (FUD) might help with advertising. As end users however, we can free ourselves from such conspiracies.

 

Well, imply that I am spreading FUD is intellectual dishonest to say the least. I guess that is how academia roll these days. "Feelings" trump an actual argument. I would expect more from someone whom questioned the merits of MQA.

I am just a user with an interest in Linux/ computer audio and I have no ties or connection with someone in the audio industry. Perhaps you've missed my posts were i stated that if it sounds fine it is fine.

I guess the issue is settled then when you have two data points that clearly indicates that jitter and RFI is not an issue in computer audio playback. I am not a electrical engineer, and don't posses the technical skills to make a technical argument on the subject matter.

 

Cool! My intention was not to take a stab against you. From a laymans perspective, how do you identify a proper designed DAC?

 

There is no sure way. The best you can do is to find review with technical analysis like Atikinson does in Stereophile or @Archimago does on his web site.

 

I think the reason you got such firm push back on this is because you are stating definitively that jitter & RFI are problematic and that they can be measured to show those problems. Archimago just pointed out that, yes, it can be measured and no, it is not a problem in this application.

It's OK to state a sound preference. No one will argue much that what you hear is what you hear. But when you state something is "measurable", you just need to be ready when someone shows you the data.

 

Well, it assumes that the data put forward is correct, no? My understanding is that Archimago adopts the same method as the owner of the site ASR. To put it mildly, ASR has been criticised how they produce their measurements. Why one would trust such pure and utter garbage is beyond me.

Obviously, my part is that English is not my first language. I have inadvertently most certainly stepped on a few toes due to lack of eloquence. Thank you for pointing that out, and I am sorry if I ruffled someones feathers.

 

Why mention ASR in the same context as the tedious "jitter & RFI hurt your sound". I'm no fan of ASR but they do a useful service IMHO. It suggests to my cynical nature that there is some agenda here. The beauty of cheap computers is that they either sound good or they don't. If they don't buy an expensive streamer. I prefer to take Archimago's advice and listen for myself.

 

I never mentioned anything regarding a NAS.
Been there, done that!
Only docking a USB HDD now.

 

Excuse me? The only agenda here is insidious comments from posts like yours. If you wish to believe self-proclaimed experts that use flawed methodology then it is on you.