Re-Sequence The Beatles Albums - Capitol USA Versions As The Starting Point

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by schnitzerphilip, Apr 3, 2019.

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  1. Diego Lucas

    Diego Lucas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
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  2. BeatleStair

    BeatleStair Senior Member

    Location:
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Love it!
     
  3. let him run...

    let him run... Senior Member

    Location:
    Colchester, VT USA
    Absolutely ridiculous. And repeating what you just said, doesn't make it any more true.
    Dave Dexter, Jr. turned nothing into gold. He was given gold! Every other country didn't have the genius of Mr. Dexter, yet somehow the Beatles managed to find success without him.
    Brilliant marketer...lucky marketer is more like it. But, his brilliance should be easy to figure out based on his pre-Beatles and post-Beatles work. I would think that after the Beatles were no longer part of his responsibility he must have been able to have his pick of whoever he chose to rocket up
    the charts. So what'd we get? Well he's still primarily known for altering the first half dozen Beatles records to the displeasure of the band and George Martin for inserting himself into the total creating aspect of album making.
    He's also the one, in exercising his golden touch rejected releasing the first four Beatles singles, even though Capitol already owned the masters!
    But, for me the absolute clincher was what he choose to do after Lennon's murder. He wrote a column that appeared in Billboard Magazine the week which contained eulogies and tributes to John. What did Dave decide as a brilliant guy to do? Well, his headline was, "Lennon's Ego
    & Intransigence Irritated Those Who Knew Him" and then went on to slag off John as he recounted his history with the band.
    He went on to praise himself and his decisions and explained how John complained about the US covers, the eq and reverb that Dave did to the masters that Capitol used. Imagine the gall of a lowly artist complaining about the look, sound and track selection which changed what they had chosen to release! He went on to say that Lennon was the one who "bitched loudest" about Dave's choice of songs to be included on their Capitol
    Albums (again, who did Lennon he was to question the mighty Dave Dexter, Jr).
    He added Lennon become more intransigent as the Beatles success pyramided. "Nothing we did at Capitol
    appeased him." Well, I guess once, from Sgt Pepper onward Capitol Records was releasing exactly what the Beatles created, John and the rest were appeased.
    Now, keep in mind this whole thing by Dexter was published less than two weeks after John was killed.
    Who does that? We were all hurting. And this A$$h0łë, decides to
    try and equal the score of being unappreciated by John for butchering their work by dumping on him in Billboard, of all places.
    No respect for Dave at all. None.
     
  4. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    Let's see...

    In the UK, you would have needed to buy 8 Parlophone albums (and one of those would mainly be just to get Bad Boy) and then 7 singles plus 1 EP to obtain all the Beatles songs up to the end of 1966*.

    In the US, you would have needed to buy 10 Capitol albums and 6 singles (or the two non-Capitol LPs - Introducing & AHDN - instead of 3 of those singles) to get the same material**.

    So US fans would still need to buy almost as many 45's as UK fans, as well as buying more albums.

    The UK 'filler' you talk about was released on albums in the US too, by the way...

    * UK singles required for:
    Thank You Girl
    I'll Get You
    This Boy
    She's A Woman
    Yes It Is
    I'm Down
    Paperback Writer/Rain
    plus the Long Tall Sally EP

    **US singles required for:
    From Me To You
    There's A Place/Misery
    Can't Buy Me Love
    A Hard Day's Night/I Should Have Known Better
    I'm Down
    Paperback Writer/Rain
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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  5. nikh33

    nikh33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    ...b...b...but you don't get it! Capitol! CAPITOL!!!
     
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  6. John Harchar

    John Harchar Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Basically it wasn't until they came out on CD that everything made some semblence of sense! :D
     
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  7. nikh33

    nikh33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    Dexter's nasty pettiness and puerile sulking is displayed for all to see. In that peevish tantrum of a Billboard article, he seems blithely unaware that Lennon's attitude to him changed once he got to know what sort of man Dexter was. His day had come and gone by 1964 but he didn't accept it. He'd been the kingpin at Capitol up until January 1964 and done a lot of great work. Once he turned down She Loves You as being "uncommercial" he had unknowingly signed his resignation, he just wasn't aware of it until a lot later.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  8. wiseblood

    wiseblood Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    I like the thought you have here of including Paperback Writer and Rain on this album, but I'd resequence the album if they appear. Here's what I'd do.

    Revolver:

    Taxman
    I'm Only Sleeping
    Eleanor Rigby
    Paperback Writer
    Love You Too
    Here There Everywhere
    Rain

    Good Day Sunshine
    And Your Bird Can Sing
    For No One
    She Said She Said
    I Want To Tell You
    Got To Get You Into My Life
    Tomorrow Never Knows

    For as much as I really like the track, Doctor Robert probably gets the boot on my collection if we're sticking to a 14 song album. Not exactly sure where I'd put it. It's not single material and nothing else was released in 66 that this could appear on. MAYBE it could have been a B side, albeit a kinda weak one.
     
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  9. Hardy Melville

    Hardy Melville Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Again, my criterion is what versions are the better to sit down and listen to. What is " a more natural and comprehensive representation of each recording stage of the band" (whatever the merits of such a standard, but see below) is a different criterion.

    For example, as much as I love Meet the Beatles, even at the time it seemed a bit odd how it had a song like Til There Was You on it. I never bought the VeeJay album but also knew about A Taste of Honey. So then the Beatles Second Album came out, and I was thrilled. Nothing but rockers and R 'n B ballads. And She Loves You, which I had been unable to find as a single. You put that record on and played the whole thing. Even in hindsight I still prefer hearing You Can't Do That with these songs instead of the mix on A Hard Day's Night. And in the US, imo the Second Album followed by release of A Hard Day's Night cemented their cultural impact. It was a hugely significant record.

    Another point is your preference for collections that are based on a "recording stage" criterion ignores the many times the UK versions left off the singles. So when you get to Past Masters, you've got a chronological order to be sure, but songs that were not included in the album releases representing those "recording stages". In other words, by your own criterion the UK releases fail.

    And we will simply have to agree to disagree about the Rubber Soul versions.

    Ftr I bought all the UK releases when they came out on CD. I certainly listen to them frequently. But I also retained my original Capitol albums, and will regularly put on Meet the Beatles, the Second album, and especially Rubber Soul. Less frequently I listen to the Yesterday and Today sequence (which was great!). UK Revolver is the better version, but both are flawed imo by inclusion of Yellow Submarine and not having Paperback Writer and especially Rain not on either. Sure wish they'd included all from that recording stage on one album!
     
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  10. Hardy Melville

    Hardy Melville Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Your UK singles list did not include Day Tripper/We Can Work it Out, both songs appearing on the Capitol release Yesterday and Today. Not to mention the singles left of the UK EP of Magical Mystery Tour. The MMT singles alone would be three more.
     
  11. nikh33

    nikh33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    Day Tripper/We Can Work It Out were both on A Collection of Beatles Oldies so you didn't need the single, the album was one of the 8 included on the list (for Bad Boy). The list was up to the end of 1966 so the MMT situation, as well as the WWF Across the Universe, The Inner Light and You Know My Name (all on a Parlophone LP by 1978 but not on a Capitol album until 1980) is a moot point.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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  12. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    They're on A Collection Of Oldies, if we're including that.

    If we're not including that album, then it's (only!) 7 albums, 8 singles and 1 EP for the UK (though no Bad Boy).

    But still 10 (or 12) albums for the US, and 6 (or 4, if you prefer the Introducing & AHDN LPs instead) singles for the US.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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  13. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    Not quite... the CD editions of the MMT album use the mixes featured on the 1973 UK cassette (not the Capitol or HorZu editions).
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  14. YpsiGypsy

    YpsiGypsy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I was speaking of content, the US Capitol LP sequence of 11 songs. There are only 6 songs on the UK EP.

    Side one:
    1. "Magical Mystery Tour"
    2. "The Fool on the Hill"
    3. "Flying"
    4. "Blue Jay Way"
    5. "Your Mother Should Know"
    6. "I Am the Walrus"
    Side two:
    1. "Hello, Goodbye"
    2. "Strawberry Fields Forever"
    3. "Penny Lane"
    4. "Baby, You're a Rich Man"
    5. "All You Need Is Love"

    That is why I said The US Capitol version of Magical Mystery Tour looks like canon now, with this Japanese release and the 2009 & 2014 Box Sets
     
  15. Hombre

    Hombre Forum Resident

    "Paperback Writer" was also included on A Collection Of Beatles Oldies.
     
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  16. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award Thread Starter

    Location:
    NJ USA
    That's powerful. I'm going to reset my Revolver playlist and give that a spin.

    Agreed on Doctor Robert. Something about it always irks me, just feels like a Yesterday & Today track to me.
     
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  17. Hombre

    Hombre Forum Resident

    You're right, the UK albums do not represent each recording stage in its complete form, as singles were usually excluded. But what I meant is that the 12 recordings stages of the Beatles are represented by the 11 UK albums (not counting Yellow Submarine) plus Magical Mystery Tour. That's why I say that the UK discography is a better guide of the Beatles career, as each album represents a determined period, even though some singles were excluded.

    On the other side, the US versions usually mixed tracks from different recording stages, so they work more like compilations rather than proper period albums. Now if you prefer them as listening experiences, that's a different story. In my case, I tend to appreciate diversity, so I like having "Drive My Car" along with the gentle folk-rock stuff.
     
  18. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    I would say the MMT LP has been canon since 1987 or even before, when the EP stopped being sold in the UK.
     
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  19. YpsiGypsy

    YpsiGypsy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    was it ever released in the UK as a stand alone LP and not part of a box set?
     
  20. nikh33

    nikh33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    The EP is still on sale in the UK. The LP was first released in 1976.
    Yes, in 1976, 1987, 2009 and 2012.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
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  21. john lennonist

    john lennonist There ONCE was a NOTE, PURE and EASY...

    For the Fantasy Alternate Track Lists we create, please make sure that each album side does not exceed (or exceed by much) 20 minutes, which I think the official canon only exceeded on "Abbey Road."

    Following is my Alternate Sgt Pepper that, if configured this way, would finally earn its due (IMO, anyway) as the greatest Beatles album:

    As it was released, the two sides of "Pepper" run 19:50 and 20:02 respectively.

    REMOVED: Never been much of a fan of "Good Morning Good Morning" (except that I loved the way my doggie's ears would perk up every time he heard the dogs barking during the "Fox Hunt" ending )... next to that I'd shed no tears placing "Fixing a Hole" on the chopping block, so I'd do this:.


    Side A: (20:42)

    Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
    With A Little Help From My Friends
    Lovely Rita
    Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds
    Getting Better
    She's Leaving Home
    Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite!


    Side B: (approx. 20:00, depending on the edited length of "Within You")

    Penny Lane
    Strawberry Fields Forever
    When I'm 64
    Within You Without You (EDIT down to 3:30 - 4:00 from its original 5:05... it's overlong anyway [IMO] so this would actually improve it)
    Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)
    A Day In The Life (fade out the crowd noise segue then start the song with John’s “sugar plum fairy, sugar plum fairy” opening)


    With this line-up I think Pepper would be able to live up to its "The Beatles Masterpiece" reputation that some have for it (though certainly not I... and even with this line-up, I'd still (slightly) prefer The White Album).

    .
     
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  22. john lennonist

    john lennonist There ONCE was a NOTE, PURE and EASY...

    And to add to my post above:

    For all that is good and Holy, "Leave My Kitten Alone" has to be included on some fantasy album!
     
  23. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award Thread Starter

    Location:
    NJ USA
    The singles were recorded with the album tracks. And they are the songs the group deemed the strongest. So they too represent the 'complete form' of each album, some might say they are the best representation of each album. Paperback Writer is pure Revolver, Penny Lane encapsulates Sgt. Pepper, Hey Jude epitomizes the White Album.

    The UK discography excluded too many singles from the albums they promoted therefore it is weaker and less complete.
     
  24. Hombre

    Hombre Forum Resident

    But the singles were not excluded from the UK discography, they were just released in another format and not as part of albums. If you want to see the complete picture of each period, then you need the album plus the contemporary single. That's what the US discography failed to do, when they mixed different recording stages within one record.
     
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  25. Brian Kelly

    Brian Kelly 1964-73 rock's best decade

    And "I'm Only Sleeping", "And Your Bird Can Sing", and "Doctor Robert"

    With those three being taken off of YESTERDAY AND TODAY, I would add
    From Me To You
    Leave My Kitten Alone
    That Means A Lot
    I'm Down
     
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