Re-Sequence The Beatles Albums - Capitol USA Versions As The Starting Point

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by schnitzerphilip, Apr 3, 2019.

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  1. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award Thread Starter

    Location:
    NJ USA
    I don't know why Capitol made those decisions but a guess would be that for this all-important album designed to position the Beatles to a more serious, mature audience that the songs that were blatant Dylan/Byrds copies would have cast the band in a negative light. Instead, Rubber Soul was perceived as an album that took what Dylan and others had done and advanced it in a uniquely different way. The Beatles came across as innovators, not followers.
     
  2. Hombre

    Hombre Forum Resident

    Why do you think "Drive My Car" is immature and "It's Only Love", "Wait" and "Run For Your Life" are not? Simon & Garfunkel's Sounds Of Silence album also featured some "poppy" stuff, so I don't get your point.
     
  3. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award Thread Starter

    Location:
    NJ USA
    I was going for haute ransom note and I think it worked. Should have hit the blank space next to Revolution a bit harder.

    I challenge you to build a playlist and listen to the White Album with Side 4 as rendered and tell me it's not a superior listening experience to what the Beatles mistakenly released.
     
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  4. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award Thread Starter

    Location:
    NJ USA
    Dancing. It's about dancing. Those silly 60's kids and their in-home dance parties.

    You should see the crowd reaction at a Paul McCartney concert when he breaks into Drive My Car. 20,000 people dancing like crazy. Can't have I Get Around on Pet Sounds, either.
     
  5. Hombre

    Hombre Forum Resident

    No, actually I conceded you that the UK albums may have been improved by the inclusion of singles, but I still consider them as great works in the way they were released, particularly Rubber Soul and Revolver. And yes, I do enjoy the Past Masters anyway, having all the non-album singles at one place.

    So could the UK versions have been better? Probably yes, but still they have gained classic status the way they are. And I think the Capitol versions are awful, from the unimaginative titles, to the crappy artwork, to the messed-up tracklists. But I'm not American, so what do I know?
     
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  6. Hombre

    Hombre Forum Resident

    And what about "Sloop John B."? It doesn't quite fit, but it's still an essential track of Pet Sounds.

    And "Drive My Car" is not so danceable; the hard rock vocals and moderate speed of the slide guitar solo are not exactly an invitation to dance. It's certainly a straight rocker and not a folk song, but it cannot be compared to "I Saw Her Standing There" or "She Loves You".
     
  7. The Ole' Rocker

    The Ole' Rocker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    The UK albums worked out fine, and for those who like the US albums better: obviously they worked out fine as well.
     
  8. Hombre

    Hombre Forum Resident

    Yes, I can respect that. But why some people need to impose their preference to the rest of the world?

    This reminds me to a sport discussion I had several years ago, with a guy claiming that football (or "soccer", as they call it) is the most boring sport and that millions of Americans cannot be wrong. Then I wonder why the rest of the world, most of which loves football, can be wrong.
     
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  9. mercuryvenus

    mercuryvenus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Do you have any evidence whatsoever of that?

    None other than Dylan himself talked about how innovative 1964 Beatles music was: “I had heard the Beatles in New York when they first hit. Then, when we were driving through Colorado, we had the radio on, and eight of the Top 10 songs were Beatles songs. In Colorado! They were doing things nobody was doing. Their chords were outrageous, just outrageous, and their harmonies made it all valid. But I just kept it to myself that I really dug them. Everybody else thought they were for the teenyboppers, that they were gonna pass right away. But it was obvious to me that they had staying power. I knew they were pointing the direction of where music had to go. In Colorado, I started thinking it was so far out that I couldn't deal with it — eight in the Top 10. This was something that had never happened before. You see, there was a lot of hypocrisy all around, people saying it had to be either folk or rock. But I knew it didn't have to be like that."

    The Beatles were NEVER the boy band Monkees sort of group you make them out to be. You consistently display a fundamental misunderstanding of what this group was, filtered through an anachronistic lens, simply because they happened to have a lot of screaming female fans.

    The Beatles were not the Monkees or the Dave Clark Five.
     
  10. A well respected man

    A well respected man Some Mother's Son

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    Wrong. The original Rubber Soul has 5 clear rock songs (Drive My Car, Think For Yourself, The Word, Wait, Run For Your Life). Dexter only cut out Drive My Car. He left 4 rock songs in, discarding other songs with a mellower feel that would fit better in the tone the US RS has according to the myth, and of course in a more folk-rock style which said myth attributes to the album.

    Also, Michelle is a very commercial ballad by Paul, which was a single in many countries. You could swap it for And I Love Her without any issue.


    By removing one of the most mature songs in it (Nowhere Man) and leaving in the juvenile Run For Your Life? And then adding a teenage love song like It's Only Love, which made Lennon cringe?

    It's absurd that you talk about the two albums as if they were different animals to begin with. 85% of the US Rubber Soul comes from the original version, sequence and all. It only adds two old songs. How do you expect us to take seriously the suggestion that it's a more mature album when the only difference is two songs from the previous album?

    And by the way, what happened to your argument that songs belonged to the album in whose sessions were recorded?


    That's hilarious. What you are saying is: 1. Capitol decided consciously to make a folk-rock album, in spite of the limited options they had: basically, the 14 RS tracks and the two unreleased tracks from Help! 2. They cut out the two most evident folk-rock examples because they thought they were too obvious... :laugh:
    Really, I used to wonder if you were for real. Now I have no doubt you are trolling us.

    By the way, Nowhere Man is not "blatant Dylan copy". Dylan inspired it in the same way he inspired other confessional songs like I'm a Loser: The Beatles, and Lennon in particular, became more ambitious lyrically. IINS borrows The Byrds' guitar sound but that doesn't make it a copy either.
     
  11. FKA002

    FKA002 Forum Resident

    But what about (following your sense of logic) the best song from Rubber Soul "Day Tripper" ? It sure should have been on the album, but isn't it even more of a "dance" track?
     
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  12. mercuryvenus

    mercuryvenus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    In fact, there were dancers in the music video for Day Tripper!

     
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  13. MPLRecords

    MPLRecords Owner of eleven copies of Tug of War

    Location:
    Lake Ontario
    Not including "Paperback Writer" on the album in which sessions it was recorded: BAD!
    Not including "Drive My Car" on the album in which sessions it was recorded: GOOD!

    Consistency, where art thou?
     
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  14. nikh33

    nikh33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    Look at all those wrong countries
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    Greenland is especially wrong. :)
     
  16. let him run...

    let him run... Senior Member

    Location:
    Colchester, VT USA
    You know, I don't think I agree with much in your post. I don't think
    The Beatles "designed" Rubber Soul to "position themselves" to a more serious, mature audience. I think they were simply writing what they were writing and then recording it. It merely reflected who they were at the moment, no ulterior motive in tailoring anything for any particular group of fans. The only goal was to please themselves.
    Had theyhad some kind of business meeting and shared with Capitol Records that, "we're looking to position ourselves to a more serious, mature audience." The last thing Capitol would EVER do is aid in that quest. The label would be freaking out!! "More serious and mature music, are you guys nuts!"
    Blatant Dylan/Byrds copies...casting them in a negative light? This was 1965. There was no chat about anything like that. Even if it were true. Plus, John had already written his most Dylan influenced song for HELP!, "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away" No one at the time was looking down their nose and saying they're just doing Dylan.
    From a distance, now that 50+ years have come and gone, it's easier to see how much cross pollination was happening between everyone. Although, when I read any interviews when any of the Fabs are talking song writing and influences and inspiration. I'm always surprised at how organic those things usually are. Never ever blatant.
     
  17. let him run...

    let him run... Senior Member

    Location:
    Colchester, VT USA
    "The Beatles mistakenly released."
    That's just moronic.
     
  18. mr.datsun

    mr.datsun Incompletist

    Location:
    London
    How did the USA Capitol versions nail it from 1964 onwards when, for example, they left half the good songs off Revolver?
     
  19. The Ole' Rocker

    The Ole' Rocker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    This is silly. Just awfully silly. The Beatles nailed it with the versions they oversaw, dig?
     
  20. let him run...

    let him run... Senior Member

    Location:
    Colchester, VT USA
    There was a nice batch of Lennon Revolver songs released prior to Revolver on Yesterday and Today.
     
  21. mercuryvenus

    mercuryvenus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Seriously. Record labels are notoriously risk averse. That's why Dexter passed on the Beatles until it was blatantly obvious they were going to be successful in the US (because they were already seeing success at that point). There's absolutely no way a record label--especially a big one like Capitol--is ever going to make a decision that isn't primarily motivated by profit potential.

    The Beatles were able to release more artistically mature music by 1965/1966 because they had enough of a track record of success that Capitol and Parlophone were willing to release slightly riskier material. They would never have been able to get away with that in 63 or 64.
     
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  22. Hombre

    Hombre Forum Resident

    I do respect the nostalgia factor of first generation US fans; but everywhere else I didn't see the same love for the Capitol albums.

    I bought my first Beatles albums in 1999 and only the UK versions were available; but soon afterwards I became aware of the US versions and looking at them I didn't see any superiority, I usually saw the contrary instead. I actually thought that the inclusion of singles such as "I Want To Hold Your Hand" or "I Feel Fine" was an improvement, but that also entailed shortening the albums and creating Frankenstein monsters such as Beatles VI or Yesterday And Today. No wonder why those records were successful because the music was still great and the Beatles were installed at the height of popularity; but I still see them as impoverished products.
     
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  23. maandrade

    maandrade Forum Resident

    Fourth side from WA: Enter fast Revolution and Hey Jude; quit slow Revolution I, Revolution 9 and Good Night -- Enter the new Single: slow Revolution I/ Good Night and quit the old Single: Hey Jude/fast Revolution -- Revolution 9 and Carnival of Light, both enter on Anthology 4!
     
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  24. BeatleBruceMayer

    BeatleBruceMayer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    While I like Rev 1, I don't like it as a single. Save for anthology
     
  25. Hardy Melville

    Hardy Melville Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Release of the Rubber Soul album was my candidate for the point where albums became more important than the singles.
     
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