Thanks. I have all those, except for the French sets (the Jazz Tribune series, ne c'est pas?). I was just curious what Discog Dave thought about them, since he didn't mention them and I've found them to be the best/only way to fill in gaps in the CD discography. I saw some dodgy giant boxes mentioned above that I wouldn't trust nearly as much as the CC series. In my experience such dodgy public domain releases were usually sourced from CC's CDs anyway.
I was able to borrow a set of the "Chronogical" Classics releases to evaluate for the "small labels" section of my book (covered on pages 140 - 158); had them for a couple weeks and sent them back to their owner. Through the RCA portion of Goodman's produce, I remember they sounded OK since there were plenty of OK-sounding LPs to clone from. For Columbia onward it was a different story. I have a notation that the 1940-41 volume had some "particularly poor source material" used for some tracks. Later, two tunes that had been edited when rereleased by Columbia's budget label Harmony were also edited on these CDs - they'd copped the LP transfers. Elsewhere, off-speed transfers, mistakes in annotation (wrong take numbers cited), so on and so forth. But this was the only CD series to attempt "completeness," at least for master takes. A label called "Neatwork" put out four volumes of alternate takes, "complementing the French Classics series." Again, they copped from various sources with varying quality (including a German RCA LP series that had some, er, "issues," instead of - admittedly rare - original 78s). Overall, for ease of getting most of everything on CD, these were the only game in town when they were in print - but buyer beware! And now, the aftermarket prices I've seen are sometimes astounding. Both of the RCA/BMG/Bluebird Harry James Years volumes had previously unissued alternate takes: three on volume 1 and one on volume 2. RCA had gotten a handle on using CEDAR properly by the time these CDs came out, so while you might find faults, they're nowhere near as bad as the "Birth of Swing" set. I'd never gotten the big band RCA France Jazz Tribune 2-LP sets, so can't really comment on them. I did get both of the small-group sets from that series, since they have first releases of some takes. Likewise, I have about half of the 13 LPs Jean-Paul Guiter masterminded for RCA France's earlier "Black and White" series; same reason - first release of alternates. With few exceptions, they have good sound since they had access to the master material.
LOL Well, that's disappointing: I had always assumed, perhaps naively, that CC had always made transfers from original 78s. I found a lot of faults with Wrappin' It Up: The Harry James Years, Part 2. For example "Could You Pass in Love?" sounds like a stereo recording of a mono track: the music is centered in the middle, but the left and right channels are 'active', and the music bleeds into the two side channels off and on. Tracks 1,2,7,8,9,13,14, and 17 sound especially bad. Track 16 ends with a pop, and 17 begins with a pop. The first volume, which was engineered by someone else, doesn't suffer from these problems.
How common is it for these CD sets to be derived from LPs for this era of music? I’ve been told elsewhere when sourcing material (Ella, Motown) that most companies simply will not pull from commercial LPs given poor transcription quality. I suppose I just assumed that most of these sets were derived from the original discs or tapes thereof. Do you know what the RCA Bluebird sets were sourced from? We’ve discussed here differences between the 1970s 8x2 discs vs. the 1980s 16-LP box set. None of the CD reissues of that material sounds as good as either LP set. We’ve noted issues with Birth Of Swing, the Harry James Bluebird CDs, and the two Membran sets. It really is a shame the Victor years won’t get a good, remastered CD box set. As much as I try to equally enjoy Goodman’s Columbia and Capitol output, I simply cannot stop listening to the Victor years, particularly the 1935-37 material. There was just an excitement and urgency of those bands that is unparalleled anywhere else in Goodman’s recording history.
Most of the public domain labels (with a few exceptions such as Hep) will use LPs or whatever else they can get their hands on for source material. Official labels (i.e. those that have access to the masters) won't use LPs unless they have no other options. I think Mosaic has used LPs once or twice for tracks that were unavailable in any better version. You mentioned Membran: they are one of the least reputable PD labels so I wouldn't be surprised to find CDs, LPs, mp3s, or god-knows-what. PD labels are extremely lazy though so their preference is to steal from CDs rather than make their own transfers.
Yes, even I (with my tin-ears) can hear the poor quality of the Membran sets, although the 20disc version isn't awful. I see them as cheap collection filler until I can get better copies; actually, that is IF I can get better copies. Unfortunately as Dave mentioned below, official releases are few and far between. I don't remember the last official RCA release. It may have been the Complete Small Groups set in 1997, now 23 years ago? Perhaps there was a set I missed.
I know this is about collecting the music but have you read the articles Otis Ferguson wrote about the Goodman band during the 1935-1937 era?https://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Jazz-...ds=otis+ferguson+reader&qid=1578883051&sr=8-1 He writes about that excitement. That’s why the Savory material needs to be released!
The Carnegie Hall concert was 1999. The Centennial Collection or the Essential BG was the last release that I can think of.
I was thinking of the Victor material. I think there may have been a single CD compilation, but tend to avoid they only have tracks I already own. For Victor material, I think The Small Groups set was the most recent.
"The Essential Benny Goodman" is the last major CD collection I can think of from Sony (remember, they own "Victor"); they covered the 30s and 40s in that two-CD set. Otis Ferguson is essential reading. The RCA Bluebird LP sets were generally sourced from metal parts / test pressings in Victor's vaults, supplemented by 78s from collectors where vault material was missing or in substandard quality. In paperwork Russ Connor passed to me I've seen lists of tapes directly transferred from vault master material in conjunction with that series. (In other, later projects, a couple times producers / engineers even resorted to asking me for material.) Public-domain sets will indeed generally use whatever they can easily get their hands on - certainly not major companies' vault material. There are exceptions, though few and far between. Hep (John R T Davies), Jazz Oracle (John R T Davies, Ted Kendall), some Naxos (David Lennick / Graham Newton) went to the trouble of getting the best possible copies (test pressings or high-condition 78s) and used top-flight remastering engineers for their produce. And yes - as great as the Columbia (1939-46) material is, I think Goodman's musical legacy will rest solidly on the 1935-37 band, peaking with the '38 Carnegie Hall performance.
Yes, I forgot that Columbia released the Carnegie Hall concert, but it was recorded during the Victor era, so ... As for compilations, don't immediately pass them over. Sometimes they'll slip in an unreleased track or some oddity, and at the very least they offer the possibility of improved SQ. Discog Dave: what's the best version of the Columbia small groups (apart from the Charlie Christian and Peggy Lee material)? I did a few comparisons between the Chrono Classics and those old Columbia blue borders (Small Groups and Slipped Disc, I think) and I actually thought the CC's sounded better due to the excessive CEDAR used by Columbia, but now that I know CC didn't necessarily make transfers from 78s, I don't know what to think.
Elmo, I'd say trust your ears and taste - if the Classics CDs satisfy, then enjoy. It's been too long since I listened to those tracks from that source to give an opinion now, though when time permits I could run some comparisons against Columbia's "purple border of death" releases. It's entirely possible they got hold of decent LPs to clone from. Side note, and apologies for sidetracking: one of my favorite packages was Columbia C-113, "Benny Goodman Sextet Session" - four 78s, circa summer/fall 1945; Jane Harvey on vocal, Red Norvo, Teddy Wilson or Mel Powell (depending on the tune), Slam Stewart on bass. (It's been reissued on 10" LP, and most tracks are also on one of those "purple border" Columbia CDs). My favorite rendition of "Rachel's Dream," and a solid rendition of one of my wife's favorites, "Just One of Those Things." I was living in Binghamton, NY in the mid 1980s, and had a copy of the set by then; remember one evening letting it wail and grooving with Slam's bass-&-vocalizations. I knew Mr Stewart lived somewhere in the area, but didn't know specifics. Within a year or so, he passed away... and it was only then I found he'd been living about eight blocks away from me.
Yes, I've grown to like those Columbia small groups sides a lot -- even more than the Victors, most of which are spoiled by Lionel Hampton's bleating!
LOL. Hold Ctrl+Alt+Delete and reboot! I've read the criticisms of the Columbia Jazz Masterpiece series and have them all both on CD and LP. They're not as bas as some of the other stuff out there. That said, I was very pleased with the Mosaic set and switched to it as my default Columbia years playlist.
For Goodman’s classical recordings his 1940 Debussy Rhapsody #1 is breathtakingly beautiful. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0006840N4/ref=pe_3187911_185740111_TE_item_image He had not yet changed his style when playing “classical” and so it has the spirit and heart of his “jazz” playing. He did the Mozart in 1940 as well but it wasn’t released until recently in this same series. It’s better than the 1950s one.
I took a listen to this CD early (eeaaarrrllyyy!) this morning, and have to say I hear some of the same things. Didn't have your message in front of me when listening at 5-ish AM, but... I did hear very soft pops at the beginning and endings of most of the later tracks, as if the transfer was not "potted down" and was reading the splices between active tape and "silent" leader. Most of the time I've listened to CDs of this ilk with my receiver's stereo/mono set to mono (yes, it's that old a piece of equipment ), so I wouldn't have heard any channel leakage or problems - unless the disc was so badly engineered that phasing was evident. I checked another CD set (Fats Waller small group sessions) of the same vintage from the same team (producer & exec-prod), and that one was clean, didn't have those faults. So I'm a bit disturbed that this project fell short. The compensations are the previously-unissued and issued-only-on-unauthorized-releases tracks. I was delighted to find those Barbirolli Society releases. As much as I advocate first issues, I don't have a clean 78 of the Debussy: think any pressing I've heard was on wartime shellac (i.e. reground compound). The Mozart was indeed unissued until this release, despite Goodman himself trying to get it on the market toward the end of his life.
Thanks for this tip. I saw them but didn't get to researching what they were before you wrote this. I've received Vols 3 and 4 (ordered all of them) and especially like the "Dear Old Southland" cuts on Vol. 3, but all of what I've heard so far is great.
I read somewhere there is a difference between this 2012 Charlie Christian reissue and the original CD issue from the 90s. Anyone know what it is and if the reissue is still worth picking up? I don't think I have all of these tracks elsewhere.
Not original Goodman but a good program by a modern finnish big Band ASCD-5 [ANTI SARPILA) - "Tribute To Benny Goodman" - Anti Sarpila & UMO Jazzorchestra 'Live In Concert' - Engineer: Tarmo Haatanen (Finnish Broadcasting Company) - rec. April 5, 1991
The same (2004) digital masters were used for the 2012 reissue of the 2004 box set. The liner note booklet is abridged and new errors crept into the notes. This box is a one-stop shop for the Goodman Sextet/Charlie Christian studio recordings.
I picked this little gem up on-line after having searched for it for a while in my physical record store. I am really amazed at the SQ on this. Most of this era’s recordings barely register on my subwoofer unless I mess around with the EQ. These are all crisp, clean, and well balanced. I have some of the tracks on various CDs and they don’t sound as good. The Joe Venuti-Eddie Lang tracks are as good as Firestone claimed in his book. I love the jazz violin. Hooray for 1931!
That MCA 2-fer is an outstanding reissue on several fronts. I agree that the sound quality beats later CDs. (I digitized my copy some months back, gotta get around to clean-up and CD-R'ing it one of these days.) The sessions are standouts. "Someday Sweetheart" from the Lang/Venuti All Star date is one of my all-time favorite tracks from Goodman's "sideman era." Some of the original 78s these tracks first appeared on are stupid rare; we're talking maybe a dozen copies out in the wild for things like the "BG & His Boys" and the trio session ("Clarinetitis" and "That's A Plenty"). (There are lots of the Brunswick 1940s reissues - the 1928-30 original Vocalions are hens-teeth uncommon.) Sad thing is - if (as I suspect) original metal parts were used for transfer on this LP, those parts may no longer exist - casualties of the 2008 Universal fire.
That 2008 fire took out untold numbers of source material for some of the best music of the 20th century. I've read material from Ella's early days, a good deal of the Verve archive, many Decca/MCA originals, and many other very important materials were reduced to ash that day. It bewilders me why there weren't more fail-safes given the material in that archive. I guess companies don't have to care since they own the material, but what a gigantic cultural loss. I've never seen anything official about what all was in there. Has Universal ever released a statement?
Welp, in the category of "you win some, you lose some", comes this... I picked this up since it had some tracks I needed but wow is the sound quality horrendous on this. Its very tinny and surface noisy. There is zero bass. It is so flat and shallow that I can't hear most of the low end. It sounds like someone holding up a cassette recorder to an AM broadcast. I guess its good to have the tracks, but I'm not even going to bother ripping them to my phone. Edit: I HATE the bebop version of King Porter Stomp. It's one of my favorite Goodman tracks and I generally love alternates of it, but this one, no. Just no.
