This Victor stuff has - had? - the potential of sounding REALLY good. The following was recorded in 1928. The recordings sound even better when you fast forward ten or so years (e.g., Robert Petway or Tommy McClennan) on Bluebird.
I'm never disappointed by a Victor disc. I'm sure there are bad ones out there, but even the filler I get from the 20s and 30s when buying a collection or stack of discs just to get that one I want still sounds very, very good.
But it rarely translates into a CD or LP. Why doesn’t a Benny Goodman 78 from the late 1930s on CD sound as clear as (say) Robert Petway’s “Catfish Blues”? Was it the relative difficulty they had recording larger ensembles? They can’t even seem to get Ellington’s RCA Victor music (e.g., the Blanton-Webster band) right, and they seem to have put a lot of time and money into that.
Not all 78s were recorded equally, as you indicate. But I find a great deal of problem in the transfers. That's exactly why I decided to put up with the various headaches of buying 78s. Sometimes you get a wonderful transfer and sometimes you don't on CDs and LPs. As we have discussed many times on this thread, there are FAR more examples of poor transfer than great. It's difficult, but not impossible, to find clean 78s and get a good sound. If I have it on 78, I hardly ever listen to Goodman's pre-Victor, Victor, or Columbia sides on LP or CD anymore.
I've been reading through this thread for an answer to a question related to the small group recordings. Until recently, I was completely unaware of the small group recordings. I ran across the RCA Complete set(3 discs), and absolutely love it. As I began to research this a bit, I see that Mosaic had a box set of the Capitol small group recordings. I know that the RCA recordings were several years earlier, and most of the Capitol recordings were missing Teddy Wilson. Are there significant musical differences between the RCA and Capitol recordings? I'm referring specifically to the music, and not the cd quality. I know that Mosaic is generally excellent.
I've never really thought about one being better than the other musically. I find both entertaining, but I suppose if I had to have only one and they both had Capitol sound quality, I'd go with the RCA. Nice, tight recordings with excellent personnel and Benny in fine form. Are you asking because you want to know if you should buy the Mosaic set? If so, I'd say it isn't the Holy Grail of Goodman recordings, but it's worth it if you can get a decent price. (And you cannot discount the value of having Benny in a small group setting with excellent SQ.) I doubt you'll ever find the Mosaic set for a bargain basement price.
From my perspective, Benny's playing across his history of small group performances is consistently good, all of one piece. But the dramatic musical differences come from the various group instrumental make-up (instrumentation and size of groups), and the players themselves. Teddy Wilson is dramatically different from Jimmy Rowles on piano. Lionel Hampton is dramatically different from Red Norvo on vibes. The guitarists are different. Some have tenor sax, some have trumpet, some have accordion. They are all very good. The current general audience for jazz tends to accept and enjoy small group performances more readily than big band performances, regardless of the players. Benny's small group sessions are great. All of them.
I agree with misterjones and Tribute that Goodman's small group work is universally excellent. Don't forget about his Columbia sextet and other small groups. They are a bright spot in his Columbia catalog (which got a little schmaltzy in places, IMHO). To your question... By a mile, I prefer the music of the Victor years. It is some of the best hot jazz out there. I mean, who could top Goodman, Wilson, Hampton, and Krupa? No one! The Capitol years get a bit too be-boppy and post-big band for me, but nonetheless I listen to them regularly.
Thanks misterjones, Tribute, and ella_swings. That is the feedback that I was hoping to get. The sound quality wasn't the most critical factor for me. In the past couple of years, I've started to enjoy hot jazz. Django Reinhardt is one that I listen to frequently, and The Tiffany Transcriptions of Bob Wills & The Texas Playboys are very good(although I know he's not considered hot jazz, the Tiffanys allow his band to shine, and he ventures into jazz on occasion). The reason I was asking is because I'll keep an eye out for the Mosaic set. I recently found the Mosaic sets of King Ory and Jack Teagarden for $10 each , and they looked like new, so you never know when you might luck across one. These RCA tracks from Benny Goodman are getting a lot of play from me now, but I was worried about Teddy Wilson not being on the Capitol Sessions. Tribute, it's great to run across you again. We are both fans of Bear Family Records, and even had an off-line conversation related to BF. You and I obviously share similar tastes in music.
I go for any music that has passion and tells stories (in sound or in words) that reflect my own stories.
Indeed it’s hard to beat the BG, Krupa (Tough too), Hampton, Wilson small group recordings and live performances (1935-38) (the live “My Gal Sal” and “Everybody Loves My Baby” are beyond category, so groovy and swinging). But, the Capitol small groups (Mosaic Box) have their moments. And, Jimmy Rowles is an amazing player. Also, the cuts from the fifties with Mel Powell are spectacular. There are some track on the Mosaic with Teddy Wilson. Benny Goodman Trio: Benny Goodman, Teddy Wilson, Jimmy Crawford. New York, November 7, 1947 1996-1 Blue and broken hearted Cap 15888, H343, (F)OCO54-82005M, (E)VMPM1002 1997-4 After hours Cap 15886, T669, Cap H343, EMI (F)1551563 1998-3 All I do is dream of you Cap T795 1999-3 I'll never be the same Cap T669, Cap H343, (F)OCO54-82005M, (E)VMPM1002 2500-1 Bye bye pretty baby Cap 15887 Cap H343, CDP21145 [CD] 2501-2 Shoe shine boy Cap H/T441, (E)VMPM1002, EMI (F)1551563 Note: All above titles also on Swaggie (Aus)S1380, Pausa 9031, Mosaic MD4-148 [CD], Classics (F)1407 [CD], Capitol Jazz 5-21225-2 [CD], Blue Moon (Sp)BMCD99957 [CD]. [G4162] Benny Goodman Benny Goodman Trio : same New York, November 17, 1947 2517-6 At sundown Cap 15888, H343 2518-6 When you're smiling 15887, - 2519-2 All I do is dream of you 15886, H343, T669, (E)LC6520 2520-1 Stompin' at the Savoy Cap H 343, T669, (E)VMPM1002, EMI (F)1551563 Note: All above titles also on Swaggie (Aus)S1380, Pausa 9031, Mosaic MD4-148 [CD], Classics (F)1407 [CD], Capitol Jazz 5-21225-2 [CD], Blue Moon (Sp)BMCD99957 [CD].
The Benny Goodman “Jazz Potpourri” program by Loren Schoenberg has some wonderful Goodman tracks through the years. And, it ends with that amazing “Everybody Loves My Baby”. Jazz 88.3 FM - KSDS, San Diego
I finally found these, but don't hear any version differences from the 10" Lp. This CD Dave referred to is highly recommended.
As wonderful as the Helen Ward/Percy Faith EPs pictured above are, they have nothing to do with my note on the Benny Goodman releases*. On the Ward/Faith releases, I'd be moderately surprised if differences were found between the EPs and the 10" LP - beyond one LP cut omitted from either EP. And as much as Percy Faith may be derided for his "easy listening" material - I love this LP. *Coincidental timing: just this week I've been asked about those Goodman sessions; will be digging out and listening to the various releases all over again.
Indeed. A complete tangent on my part from the Goodman sessions to the Faith sessions. The quote box should have come before the CD image. Poor editing on my part!
Just picked up this 78 RPM set from Goodwill for $4. I already have the set as a 45 RPM box, but I'm certain this will sound better . . . especially with my Rek-O-Cut pre-amp. Time to break out the ol' 78 RPM styli (I have two)! The records seem excellent (maybe even mint). The binding has come apart, but otherwise is quite good for its age (much better than this stock photo from Discogs). It's amazing no records were broken in those highly breakable bins they put record in. A1 Tiger Rag A2 Ain't Misbehavin' B1 He's Funny That Way B2 I Got Rhythm C1 Just One Of Those Things C2 China Boy D1 Shine D2 Rachel's Dream Bass – Slam Stewart Clarinet – Benny Goodman Drums – Morey Feld Guitar – Mike Bryan Piano – Mel Powell (tracks: A1, A2, B2, C2, D1) and Teddy Wilson (tracks: B1, C1, D2) Vibraphone – Red Norvo Vocals – Jane Harvey (tracks: B1) A1, D2 recorded August 29, 1945 A2, B2 recorded Sept. 18, 1945 B1 recorded Feb. 1, 1945 C1, D2 recorded May 7, 1945 C2 recorded Sept. 24, 1945 All recorded in New York
That's a great find at a great price! The companion is just as good. Columbia C 102. And that Rek-o-Kut has yet to disappoint me.
Thanks for the recommendation of the Rek-O-Cut a while back. I have used it a lot for LPs, but not so much with my 78s (clearly its wheelhouse). I just haven't taken the time to set up my TT for that. I need to spend a few days with my 78s, I think. I have a few other 78 album sets that I haven't listened to in a long while (Bunny Berigan, Nat King Cole, Tommy Dorsey, Piatigorsky, and Lang & Venuti, which includes a young Benny Goodman).
Some heavy duty clear packing tape for the inside and black Duck (duct) tape for the spine and almost as good as new. I'm not a collector, but I have enough 78s, including Columbia 78s, to be able to say the sound likely is as good as it gets.
I've found that a light wood glue is also perfect for restoring the ubiquitous spine tears, if the spine is still with the album cover, that is.
Anybody know a trick to find Take 1 of Madhouse on the original 78 (Victor 25268)? I keep buying copies and can only find Take 2. Most of the time I can't listen to them myself to determine the difference. I know that a single rim shot from Krupa after Stacy's solo is Take 1 and a double shot is Take 2, but are there any visual indictions of the difference on the disc itself? Thanks in advance.
We have the Goodman "white box" LPs and the "black box" CDs. So when are we going to get the Ella Swings RCA Years box? Speaking of the white box, this might be a good opportunity to own a nice copy at a reasonable price - Benny Goodman - The RCA Victor Years: 16xLP + Box, Comp For Sale | Discogs I cannot vouch for the seller, of course, but their rating seems pretty good. By the way, if you're interested in buying it just to resell it, a pox on you and your stereo system! (You know who you are.)
LOL. That would be a COMPLETE disaster! If I didn't already have an embarrassing number of copies of the white box, I'd grab that one at that price.
Yeah. Supposedly sealed with no cut-out. The one I bought was sealed, but it had a saw-cut in the box. All three sealed copied from the same estate? Who'd have three of these other than someone connected to Goodman or RCA (or you)?
