Recommendations- Building Benny Goodman Collection

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Ponso1966, Mar 2, 2019.

  1. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    Not Benny, but these are really good, as well. The first features one of my favorite vocalists from the period, Edythe Wright.

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  2. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    It is surprising how much better the Jasmine version is than the other attempts. It's as though they have a different source recording.

    The 80th anniversary of the concert came and went with no new (re)issue. I thought something was in the works when I read Seth Winner (of Robert Johnson Centennial Edition fame) was in possession of the originals, but no such luck.
     
  3. ella_swings

    ella_swings Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Have either of these gems been released on CD/Digital? I can't find them anywhere. I Love Paris is an absolute gem of 60s jazz styling. The Seven Come Eleven album is a delight from beginning to end. Ripping from mint/sealed/super clean vinyl is fine, but remastered CDs are even better.
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  4. BroJB

    BroJB Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado

    Anyone know if the Jasmine Carnegie Hall release is available on vinyl?
     
  5. BroJB

    BroJB Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Looking over his amazing catalog, one wonders why Goodman doesn't get his full due as an absolute top tier American musical artist. He's well-remembered, to be sure, but rarely mentioned as someone whose accomplishments are right up there with the greatest of the great.

    Plus, he was a pioneer in integrating musicians.

    A towering figure, really, who deserves to be mentioned alongside Armstrong, Coltrane, Ellington, Gershwin and Davis.
     
  6. ella_swings

    ella_swings Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    The paper inserts in the discs only refer to CD releases. There is not an option for vinyl. It states "Free Jasmine CD Catalogue. I hope you have enjoyed this Jasmine CD. If you would like a free catalogue detailing current Jasmine releases...". Given that this was 2006 before the recent wave of vinyl collecting and that the CD catalogue number is JASCD 656, I would GUESS there are no vinyl releases for these. The "also available" text on the back of the Carnegie insert sleeve only refer to CDs.
     
  7. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    He was "The King of Swing", and as such I think the (modern) critics like to put him down. One thing that irks me is the seemingly omnipresent view that Artie Shaw was a better clarinetist. I like them both, and have numerous recordings by both, but I don't see how anyone can make such a claim with any certainty.
     
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  8. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    I agree. I've never seen any Jasmine releases on LP.
     
  9. ella_swings

    ella_swings Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I concur completely with this sentiment. I have as much (relative) Artie Shaw as I do Benny Goodman, but for the life of me can't understand anyone who advocates that Artie was the better clarinetist or better band leader. Benny excelled beyond Artie in both counts. Let's not get into disc sales. Benny is technically a better musician, had more impactful bands, and had a better range of music that he played to (think of Goodman's classical excursions). I love Artie, have almost everything he did and yet I still listen to Benny every day, search for Benny's obscuria, and gasp heavily when I find that rare Benny side. Not so much with Artie. I still don't understand why there is a bias against Benny, but there is. Maybe his personal relations tarred his professional accomplishments? That said, who today actually even knows Benny and Artie? if they do, are they referring to age-old fights because that's what some professor in Jazz 101 taught them?
     
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  10. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    The 1980s 2 CD set of Carnegie Hall was taken from the 1950s LP masters of what was originally released on 78s.
     
  11. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    If anyone could give Benny a run for his money, I think it would be the more flamboyant Woody Herman.

     
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  12. ella_swings

    ella_swings Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    This set appears to be most of the RCA Bluebird 8x2 gatefolds (or the 16Lp set) except for the last five songs on Vol. 7 and all of Vol. 8. There are also songs on Disc 1 and 2 of this CD from somewhere other than the RCA sets. I haven't received this yet but will be able to tell what they are on first listen.
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  13. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    My experiences with the Membran/Documents labels are the worst; they usually issue recordings that are in the public domain and they don't have access to original masters. The releases I've had and heard have very bad sound. The Benny Goodman CDs that were released by HEP (UK) are far preferable, if more expensive: The 1000 recording Series @ Hep Records, jazz in depth, Bigbands of the 30s and 40s.
     
  14. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    I'd like to hear your assessment of the SQ. The only source for such a collection (short of a needle drop) would have to be the Japanese The RCA Years noted in post #37 above. If that is the case, the sound should not be too bad. I think it would be hard to find a crappy sounding collection like this (unless Membran made it so or it was a dubbed copy of a copy etc.).
     
  15. Jazz Man

    Jazz Man Member

    Location:
    Baltimore
    Personally, I think Shaw is a better clarinetist by far, at least from a technical standpoint. Don't get me wrong, I love Benny Goodman; he swung more and had more of a blues quality. However, Shaw was a more intellectual and lyrical player with better technique and a prettier tone.
     
  16. Jazz Man

    Jazz Man Member

    Location:
    Baltimore
    Personally, I think Shaw is a better clarinetist by far, at least from a technical standpoint. Don't get me wrong, I love Benny Goodman; he swung more and had more of a blues quality. However, Shaw was a more intellectual and lyrical player with better technique and a prettier tone.

    Also, if I were to call anyone "The King of Swing" it would be my favorite swing artist, Count Basie. I know that's how Goodman was billed but I just prefer Basie.
     
  17. Robert C

    Robert C Sound Archivist

    Location:
    London, UK
    I've been listening to the Jasmine Carnegie set over the weekend. They explain in the liner notes that they took the 1999 Sony CD (which, as far as I know, had no restoration applied to the transfers) and applied CEDAR declick/decrackle/dehiss/etc to the files. They did an excellent job, but the set is of course limited to 2006 standards of restoration. I'm tempted to do the same as Jasmine but with 2019 tools!
     
  18. ella_swings

    ella_swings Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I saw criticisms of the sound quality but for $9.99 I see it as a collection filler until I can find the Japanese RCA Years boxed set. I have the Artie Shaw set by the same company and the sound quality is ok to good. Not great but also not awful either. At this point, I just want this for my iPhone to listen to whilst traveling.
     
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  19. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    Often, people who comment on SQ don’t separate the limitations of the underlying recordings from the transfer from the source material. The quality of the RCA Victor recordings of Goodman might be considered mediocre or even bad because they don’t sound as good as modern or even early post-war recordings. Until someone gives the entire Goodman RCA Victor catalog the Hep treatment - and I cannot see any organization short of the Smithsonian doing so - comprehensive sets will always sound no better than acceptable (even for the time).

    EDIT - There’s a 20-CD version by Membran that covers most of the pre- and post-RCA Victor material, which I would try if I didn’t already have the fantastic Mosaic box.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  20. Quite true. Wer have to live with this quality just for the exciting music. The sources are in a great number not what we would call Hi-Hi. But these were the times. The Miller music mis great for me too even not everything is an "ear candy".
     
  21. ella_swings

    ella_swings Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Are you referring to the Mosaic Columbia/Okeh box or the Mosaic Capitol box or both? Or is there a third I'm not aware of?
     
  22. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    I was referring to the Columbia/Okeh box, but the 20-CD box could have some of the Capitol material in it. In any event, I also have Capitol “small group” set on vinyl. I don’t think there are any other Mosaic boxes.
     
  23. ella_swings

    ella_swings Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I very much enjoy the Columbia/Okeh set. I find the alternate versions very fun to listen to.
     
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  24. misterjones

    misterjones Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    ALMOST pulled the string on this one (Portrait, by Past Perfect) today. I then noticed it was an exact copy of the Membran set, though the Past Perfect set has better documentation (a 40-page booklet). The killer was when I noticed it has been remastered into "virtual stereo". I wonder to what extent Membran copied Past Perfect, vice versa, or some other set, and whether the virtual stereo - with possibly some not-so-good remastering - is on both.

    I have the set at the bottom, which is a 45 RPM set from the 1950s that applied what I believe RCA called "Orthophonic". It's essentially a slight echo that gives the music a bit of a concert hall effect. RCA used that (or similar stereo effects) a lot in the 1950s, destroying music that otherwise would have been just fine if left as-is. Capitol, on the other hand, used what they called "Duophonic", which actually isn't too bad. That has some echo, but also splits frequencies between channels, which makes the stereo effect much better. Capitol had the best simulated stereo IMO. Stan Kenton continued to use the process into the 1970s for his older recordings issued on his Creative World label. In Kenton's (or some others, like Glen Gray's) case, the effect provides an interesting, different listening experience. RCA's stuff, not so much.

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    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
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  25. ella_swings

    ella_swings Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    RCA certainly destroyed many of their releases in the 50s with Orthophonic. The one that comes to mind with egregious echo effect is the Glenn Miller Story. All versions of this release were ruined with the echo, but seemed to get worse when it was reissued. The first:
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    is bad, but the second "Stereo Effect Reprocessed from Monophonic" release is worse:
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    At points "American Patrol" makes feel like my ears are bouncing off a wall. Pennsylvania 6-5000 is almost unlistenable with the echo effect. And I'm not a audiophile. Many people hear things in remastering I never catch, so this has to be bad if I can hear it!
     
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