The bottom line is whether your phono front end is worth $100 or $1,000,000, it’s no better than what can be retrieved from that piece of plastic, and that can’t be done well if the grooves are dirty.
Well said. It's amazing sometimes, how people think that the extra noises heard while playing dirty records are strictly additive. They are hearing the additional noise only. They are also loosing out when it comes to subtle nuances, clarity, dynamic range which is in effect, subtracted from what they can hear by the extra noise .
my most important upgrade was a MOTH vacuum cleaning machine but without the right cleaning solution it is of no use. I started cleaning my records with a lactic acid solution and this is my biggest upgrade!
I find record cleaning to be a mixed bag. Obviously with well played, oft handled, and/or records bought used, it can be absolutely necessary. Record surfaces get dirty and it effects play. It can -- depending what solutions and processes you're using to wash and dry the records -- really help with static build up too. But I find it a pain in the ass to continually have do -- I find that I play less and less and less vinyl every year because of all the needed prep work with vinyl, and record cleaning is one of those things. And if you get a record squeaky clean you wind up increasing stylus-groove friction (I wind up using Gruv Glide in addition to wet cleaning, does it measurably reduce stylus-groove friction? I don't know, but I swear I hear quieter backgrounds and less vinyl roar when I use it and/or Stylast).
For me ease of use was a concern. For this reason I own both a VPI MW-1 for heavy duty cleaning of used records, but afterwards they and all new records go through an Audio Desk.
I've found that once a record has had a thorough cleaning, whether new or used, there is really no reason to go back and clean again for years. That is of course if records are properly stored, a dry brush applied to eliminate any dust or particles that might be picked up when played, and no accidents (dropped, left out) happen.
More efficient record cleaning has increased my enjoyment of listening to LPs. My progression was sink--> discwasher --> nitty gritty --> spin clean + NG--> Ultrasonic cleaner. My current process is to use the spin cleaner to pre clean LPs of loose debris, then a US bath for deep cleaning, followed by a nitty gritty vac dry. My results are outstanding and represent what is to me, an upgrade. 50-60yr old LPs now have a noise floor lower than that of my system, allowing me to hear deficiencies or changes in other components. How much does improvement in low level detail and ambient cue retrieval add to the listening experience ? A lot. My total cost is less then a pr of mid level cables, or a low end MC cartridge. A dedicated cleaning process is a recommendation for anyone contemplating where or how to achieve a meaningful improvement in LP reproduction. I see others scoff at the cost involved. Less then $500 in cost for a diy US system, vs the cost (value?) of the vinyl in your collection. Should be an easy decision.
In forensics it is a principle that every contact leaves a trace. That's why I don't use brushes or any other solid contact method. When you buy used records it's quite easy to tell under a microscope which ones have belonged to brush and RCM users who use contact methods as they are covered in microscopic scour marks. Perhaps the scour marks are inaudible. Nevertheless, I still don't allow anything to touch the surface of my records except the stylus and liquid PVA which does not leave scour marks.
So you have pristine vinyl surfaces but you likely have dirt in the bottom of your grooves that only scrubbing could remove. Ultimately it's your call.
Well I think you both have a point. The brushing is needed, not to physically push the organic matter out of the groove. Most if not all the brush hairs are to large to get all the way down into the bottom of the groove. Rather the brushing is to push your solution all the way down into the groove. There the surfactant reacts chemically with the particles to break them up and draw them out. Thus vigorous brushing doesn't mean abrasively bearing down, but rather rapidly moving back and forth to provide many opportunities for the solution to fill the groove. At least that is the way I understand it.
yes it makes sense, also a brush with bristles cannot enter the grooves, they are way too fine. The velvet brushes such as MOFi or discdoctor makes sense to me. they do have fine hairs and because the velvet/material is also padded it can in my opinion with a little pressure push into the grooves.
Every record I get, new or used, gets a spin on my VPI 16.5. If it's really crudded up it's gets 2 spins with 2 different cleaners. I use the MOFI pads and they work very well. After the VPI all LP's get a MOFI sleeve. This way I know I have cleaned it. If I pull something out to play and it doesn't have a MOFI sleeve , it gets a VPI spin before playback. Before the VPI I had a manual Nitty Gritty. It did a pretty good job, but cleaning 20 or so records at a time didn't do my wrist any favors. As far as cleaning goes, it is essential before playback. As noted previously, I find if the records have been VPI cleaned I do not have to repeat this process for a long time. When I finally retire one of the first things I plan on doing is to go through all my record albums and clean every single one on the VPI. It makes listening so much better.
Absolutely. Depending on how many I've bought I save them up and do them once every two months or so. Apologies, the OP.
Water based cleaning agents need agitation to work effectively. The Record Doctor™ Clean Sweep Brush with clusters of 0.05 milli-meter (0.002”) wide Nylon bristles (260,000 bristles total) or something equal should not deeply penetrate the record groove. Additionally, Nylon absorbs water and softens during use (but returns to original properties once dry). Furthermore, the bristle width is near equal to the top width of the record groove and when combined with the low surface tension of the cleaning solution forms a hydraulic wedge to force the cleaner deep into the groove. The back-and-forth brushing action then develops the fluid agitation (a combination of velocity and shear force) necessary to deeply scrub/clean/flush the groove. But the back and forth brushing action needs to quick to develop effective agitation. Longer bristles such as the Record Doctor™ Clean Sweep Brush will collect the foam that develops when using most cleaning agents. This is good - The foam that is developed by the cleaning process is beneficial. It helps to lift debris and soil from the record groove. The Nylon brush adsorbing the foam assists with lifting the debris and soil from the record minimizing the risk of grinding debris and particles into record. A flat pad brush cannot be moved back and forth as quickly as the Record Dr brush (or similar); so maximum fluid agitation is not achieved, and if the brush penetrates deeply into the groove - not much space for the cleaning solution so you risk grinding the dirt/detritus into the record.
Much of the abrasion is done by what's trapped between the pad/brush and the vinyl surface. Dragging grit across that soft surface is not improving it, at least. What grit? The grit that caused you to use a pad/brush in the first place. A very occasional PVA peel pulls the stuff off the surface rather than grinding it in.
My call is to deep clean my records very occasionally with a PVA peel. There's no scouring - it gets right to the bottom of the groove and pulls almost everything out (grease is an exception - 3 peels leaves about 1/8th of it behind). I have confirmed this by examining the peel under a microscope. I suspect that scrubbing deteriorates the groove surfaces nearly as much as the flats. It seems to me that scrubbing or brushing the soft record surface with anything solid (hair is hard) is an act of vandalism. But "ultimately it's your call".
Isn't PVA much too viscous to get into the bottom of the grooves? Aqueous cleaners in vacuum machines can't get there, so how does gooey old white glue manage?
I've been cleaning my records for decades. I've never found the need to have a RCM. Rather I wash them by hand. Filtered water, sometimes iso alcohol on a clean cotton pad, sometimes a little hand soap but thats it. KISS. Got the method down pretty efficient, it only takes a couple minutes at most.
If you buy a lot of used records an RCM makes sense. I have records that I bought new in the seventies that have only ever had the velvet-brush with fluid treatment, and they are extremely quiet. Clean 'em if they're dirty, if not leave 'em be
I am not sure. It is entirely possible that certain surfaces might have a lower coefficient of friction when slightly dirty.
