Record cleaning - with a toothbrush?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by metalbob, Oct 8, 2002.

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  1. metalbob

    metalbob Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Someone else posted on here that he occasionally cleans his records a bit with a soft toothbrush along the grooves. Does anyone agree with this along with some distilled water? I was thinking about doing this in lieu of getting a vacuum machine temporarily.
     
  2. Stax Fan

    Stax Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    I wouldn't do that...you'll grind dirt into the vinyl. After that, there isn't any way you can get it out. If you're not in the market for a vacuum machine right now, just get some cleaning fluid and brushes from The Disc Doctor. It can be done by hand provided you rinse them thoroughly a few times. For the rinsing, try scrubbing with a new, clean Disc Doctor brush and distilled water. Repeat the rinse a few times. Try not to get your labels wet...some can handle a small amount of water around the edges, some get goofed immediately. Lesson? Make every attempt to keep water from coming in contact with the label. Sometimes, if a bit of cleaning fluid remains in the grooves after rinsing, and dries, it'll create some crackliness during playback. Just give it another good rinse with distilled water and a clean brush. Sometimes, it's just in the pressing, though...it's an imperfect world! I can't recommend Disc Doctor "Miracle Record Cleaning Fluid" and the cleaning brushes they sell enough...wonderful stuff. Get used to cleaning by hand...it's the best way even with a vacuum machine. Clean by hand, suck it up with the vacuum. That'll save you money, too...you won't need the fully automatic models. Post away if you have any more questions!
     
  3. Roscoe

    Roscoe Active Member

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    I would concur with Arin. Try Disc Doctor and remember: Rinse, rinse, rinse!!!

    The only circumstance I can see using a toothbrush would be if you have some kind of hard, caked on material making part of the record unplayable. In this scenario, you probably have groove damage anyway so a toothbrush may be a way to get the material off and make the record playable again.

    But in this event, you're probably better off trying to find a cleaner copy of the record. If this isn't an option, I would try scrubbing really hard with a Disc Doctor brush first, then resort to the toothbrush as a last option.
     
  4. metalbob

    metalbob Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I know this could be argued until the cows come home, but how does the Disc Doctor fluid compare to D4 fluid? I also have a Discwasher brush that I use.
     
  5. Stax Fan

    Stax Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    D4 fluid is really only good for removing dust. There is a caveat concerning the Disc Doctor products, though: the cleaning fluid is about $35.00/quart and the brushes are about $40.00 each. I'd get two brushes...one for cleaning, one for rinsing. It's the best method IMO. If you were using a vacuum machine in conjunction with this manual cleaning, it would cost that much more. Not really cheap either way, but consider what you've already got wrapped up in vinyl. Gotta clean 'em right. Believe it or not, dust is harder than vinyl, once it's embedded, most of it is there to stay.
     
  6. metalbob

    metalbob Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    These companies sure have us over a barrel....I guess since these products don't sell in mass quantities, they need to jack up the price to make money. Except one knock-off model, those vacuum machines - WITHOUT A VACUUM IN IT - costs over $200 each.

    What is in Disc Doctor that makes it so much better than D4 or other fluids (even homebrew)?

    BOB
     
  7. Stax Fan

    Stax Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    Beats me. Works great, though. There's actually other stuff out there. Somebody makes a deep cleaner, I think it's LAST. D4 isn't intended for deep cleaning...it's just a surface cleaner. Actually, it'll usually leave even fingerprints behind. Ya gotta have something that'll hit dirt and left behind mold release agents from the pressing plant. Vinyl's great, but it IS high maintenance. Think of it this way: once you've got an LP clean, it shouldn't need another cleaning for quite a while if you take care of it. Just use a carbon fiber record brush to remove dust before each play. I think I gave about $25 for my last Audioquest...and they'll last a long time. Don't forget your stylus, too. Clean it for every side of an LP. Basicly, keep everything in the playback chain all but sterilized! A headache, but well worth the effort. Really, after you've got your LPs clean, it isn't too much upkeep.
     
  8. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    >>>>>A couple of years ago, someone did a a comparison of what was in Disc Doctor fluid and came up with Distilled Water, 90% Isopropol Alcohol, and the same chemical thats in Lysol Direct

    So, I followed the instructions and made my own batch. Worked GREAT. The secret to record cleaning is in the rinsing!! Also, When I "rinse" I use a rinse brush to brush the distilled water into the grooves.

    Oh yes....the bruhes I use are the brushes you find in the cheap lint brushes in the .99 cent store. not the "sticky paper" roll ones, but the plastic red ones. These work GREAT for cleaning records, and at .99 each, you cant beat it.

    One final thing....I find that after cleaning and rinsing, you need to play the record once all the way thru...then rinse again. The act of playing it seems to get the final bit of dirt out of the grooves. After This play and "final rinse" thats when I dub to CD.

    No need to spend a lot of money on record cleaning, no matter what those companies that charge 35$ for .85 cents of cleaner tell you!!

    Try it yourself and see.

    Mikey
     
  9. MikeyH

    MikeyH Stamper King

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    I'm not surprised at the suggestion of a soft toothbrush; however it's likely to be too big to be effective in the grooves.

    Having 'wet cleaned' records for a good number of years, my take is that in general it's very difficult to damage disks. At all. I mean, take a (non-valuable) disk and try to scratch it. You'll need more than a fingernail to make an audible mark, and something substantial like an old cartridge to make one of those nasty digs we often find on used disks. A modern MM or MC will snap a canteliver or worse before making a mark, even if knocked pretty hard across a disk.

    A good brush (the manual Disk Doctor system from discdoc.com) does a very good job of getting the liquid to the dirt, and allowing it to move around so it can be rinsed off. As a previous poster said, rinse and rinse again. Don't use anything but distilled, especially for mixing your cleaner.

    That "hard,caked stuff" is usually squashed mites (!) and I pop them off with a tool made from a toothpick. Works for me. But then my eyes and hands are up to it.

    Mike
     
  10. chip-hp

    chip-hp Cool Cat

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Hi Mikey,

    I am confused now :confused: ... According to Disc Doctor you should not use any cleaner with isopropyl and/or methyl alcohol in it (which implies that Disc Doctor's cleaner does not contain alcohol)... while the home made formulas all appear to contain alcohol.
     
  11. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    I never like to use any kind of liquid to clean a record as it usually alters the sound of the disc. If a record is that dirty that it needs water to clean it, you are usually better off to find another copy. Just my opinion,
     
  12. metalbob

    metalbob Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I think you might not be doing an adequate job of wiping them or you are playing them wet.

    BOB
     
  13. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    I've found that, depending on the record and the grime, sometimes it takes a little bit of gentle work to finally get it done right.....
     
  14. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    Bob-
    1)Wrong
    2)Wrong

    NEXT!!!
     
  15. metalbob

    metalbob Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Well, anytime I have tried cleaning and things sound worse, it is usually because I have not done a good job of wiping down the records. If you want to listen to dirty records, I won't stop you.

    BOB
     
  16. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    It's not that they sound "worse", dude, it's that sometimes when you do this it leaves an audible "hissing" noise in the records. I also just do not like the idea of introducting foreign items(water, etc)into vinyl.

    If you keep the records clean to begin with, all you need is a soft cloth to clean them. Sheesh!
     
  17. Mike V

    Mike V New Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Isopropyl works great and is benign to vinyl. Just don't use it on shellac 78s or polystyrene records, and you will NEVER have a problem. Nothing I've tried gives a better result than Isopropyl, but it should be as pure as possible. Try an electronics store - they sell 100% pure anhydrous (no water) stuff. Pricier than drug store garden variety, but if you value your vinyl, it's worth the price. Even then it's probably 10% the cost of Disc Doctor (rip off if you ask me). 99% isopropyl might be OK too, but I've never tried it myself (available at some drug stores, or by special order through the pharmacy).

    I always rinse though, with a distilled/isopropyl mix, very light on the alcohol at that stage (maybe 20%). The alcohol acts almost like a detergent, in that it allows the fluid to spread evenly over the LP rather than bead like pure water. I'm sure you can use other additives to achieve this effect if you wish.

    Mind you, I'm using a vacuum machine, so I can't speak for the Disc Doctor brush method, etc.
     
  18. Stax Fan

    Stax Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    Typically, when records are wet-cleaned and debris is removed, the stylus will not ride the exact same portion of the groove. It needs to be played several times for your particular stylus to reseat it's new position in the groove. This is true of new records...they sound their best after a few plays because of this seating of the stylus. What the heck, though...everybody has their preferences.
     
  19. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast

    >>>>>Hiya Chip.

    Well, you know, the folks at Disc Doctor want you to buy THEIR product and not make one yourself. The truth is, that alcohol wont damge youre LPs at all, and in fact really works well as a cleaner when mixed with distilled water and lysol direct (just a little).

    The real work is in the rinsing. VERY important. Rinse AND brush the rinse water into the grooves at the end.

    I have gotten records at flea markets that were absolutely HORRIBLE sounding, and after 3 cleans with my DIY method, show a 100% improvement. Thats how I know it works!!

    good luck
     
  20. Stax Fan

    Stax Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    Typically, when records are wet-cleaned and debris is removed, the stylus will not ride the exact same portion of the groove. It needs to be played several times for your particular stylus to reseat it's new position in the groove. A brief period of slight surface noise usually results. This is true of new records...they sound their best after a few plays because of this seating of the stylus. What the heck, though...everybody has their preferences.
     
  21. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    >>>Arin is right. in fact, if I'm going to dub an LP to CDR, after I do my cleaning thing, I play the LP once, all the way thru, then rinse it again, THEN I do my dub. This yields the cleanest possible dub. And in some cases, the dub was so good, that NO Cool Edit pop/tick reduction was needed, and thats a good thing!
     
  22. Stax Fan

    Stax Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    There's nothing wrong with alcohol. However, the use of undiluted alcohol should be kept to a minimum as it will break down the plasticizers in the vinyl. Without effective plasticizers, vinyl will wear MUCH faster. I suppose the warning against using alcohol on shellac bears repeating.
     
  23. Stax Fan

    Stax Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    Yeah. Think about the MFSL Anadiscs...they didn't debur their stampers and recommended playing the new LPs a few times to allow your stylus to clear out any slight pressing imperfections. They do quiet down after a few plays. Same concept...the stylus is seating itself in the groove.
     
  24. chip-hp

    chip-hp Cool Cat

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    How much is "just a little"? Would you share your "secret" formula? :)

    How do you "rinse" a record with distilled water? Do you spray (pour) the water on the vinyl? Do you wipe off with a soft lint-free cloth?

    Thanks, Mikey. :)
     
  25. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    >>>>Hey Chip.

    Glad to be of service. Follow these directions and you'll be OK.

    To make your own cleaner:

    3 parts distilled water
    1 part 90% pure alcohol
    1/4 part Lysol direct
    2 drops photoflow (not critical)

    Spray onto surface of record. use a brush to distribute the fluid evenly acrodss the surface. scrub the record with the brush FOLOWWING the grooves, NEVER across them. I scrub in "thirds", and do it all twice.

    Do side a, then side b.

    Rinsing.

    1) Spray a generous amount of distilled water onto the record . Go in thirds, again.
    Let it run off a bit. Using a SEPERATE brush, brush the distilled water into the grooves.

    Finish with another blast of distilled water, pat dry with a paper towel.


    play once all the way thru, take off and rinse again, then you are done.


    I know this seems a bit tedious, but from hours of practice., this really works for me. I have made CDRs from LPs cleaned this way that people are SHOCKED to find out came from an LP source. (like my Dave Clark Five "Stereo Five" comp, a big winner!!)

    Hows that?
     
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