Record Fairs, LP prices and lack of CD's in 2023

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Cool Chemist, Oct 22, 2023.

  1. Warand Pain

    Warand Pain Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
    Sorry I forgot the supply and demand! Of course, yes. To be honest, most people see rare records only a money makers. In my opinion this is "wrong" and the difference between vinyl resurrection and vinyl trend (2020 onwards). But I should shut up already, as a ancient gatekeeper.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2023
    Man at C&A and lazydawg58 like this.
  2. Warand Pain

    Warand Pain Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
    Thats my observation too. You won't pick up the copy of Emperor Nightside Eclipse or similar 1st/early press for 5€ anymore. The prices are still in reasonable level and with all the CD's there's still deals to be made. The thing is, most of the underground metal CD collectors are older people who know their stuff, prices etc. So they just won't overpay unless it's really special item. For example lately I got 1st press Live in Leipzig for 60€ and strangely it feels like a bargain but seeing someone asking 20€ for newer CD reissues of that same album feels "funny". Another future problem with the collectable CD's are going to be matrixes&SID (IFPI) codes and replicas. Many people think they own 1989 Metallica CD's even they're made in 2010 cause they don't understand what is the matrix code. 2nd hand CD market is like 2010-2015 was with the vinyl. I see many deals in the USA with the metal CD's just like with their vinyl counterparts some 10-15 years ago. It seems the USA metal scene didn't fully recovering the death of "traditional metal" in the 90's. The whole 2nd hand CD market has some much common with the 2nd hand vinyl market, some times even the titles are same.
     
    nosliw likes this.
  3. Bigsweetc6

    Bigsweetc6 Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Los Angeles
    I’ll give you an example of these delusional, greedy sellers. I went to a record fair in Hollywood last night-the vendor had the exact same copy of the Cure’s “Wish” from last year at the same fair. He even gave the same spiel not recognizing me-he says -“well a perfect copy goes for $600 but I’ll give you this one for $450”. I couldn’t believe he even gave the same pitch. Now-do you think you might be slightly over pricing when you still have the same title an entire year later. And yes I agree that it’s time for buyers and collectors to collectively stop the madness and indulging in a post pandemic checks inflated market! If you don’t buy it- the prices will come down. Honestly as a 25 year collector it may sound like sour grapes but honestly it’s the first time ever I’ve ever been exasperated enough to take a long break from the hobby I love so much.
     
  4. Adagio

    Adagio Forum Resident

    Vinyl prices could be rising due to a number of factors (some of these could be contradictory, apologies in advance).

    1) The average person that prefers vintage vinyl, has more disposable income and is ready to pay the higher price
    2) The average person has less disposable income and has had to switch from buying expensive re-issues to vintage
    3) Everything being relative, individuals (esp newcomers) are not shocked at a $20 price tag on what used to be $6 because everything has gone up
    4) People are impatient and got-to-have-it now and are unwilling to shop around

    Overall I think society has way more disposable income then they did in the 40's through 60's. I would be curious to know if people paid big prices for vintage 78 rpm when the LP came out. Or did they collect and pay premium prices for 10" LP's when 12" eventually become mainstream. In another example, do a lot of people collect 8 track tapes or cassettes and pay ever increasing prices ?

    Possibly no one was interested in collecting those obsolete formats because the LP media was superior sounding, so there was no point.

    I think vinyl overall has earned a reputation of being a better sounding format (wether that reputation is deserved is a different topic). So, even though most non-audiophile individuals probably can't hear the difference between modern digital formats and Vinyl, they have latched onto the popular notion that "vinyl is better" and started collecting.

    In other words it's a bit of a fad.
     
  5. Adagio

    Adagio Forum Resident

    I'm in the same boat. I will not pay more than $10 for a vintage LP unless it is in NM condition. Thus I don't buy much vintage vinyl

    I also have more than enough LP's to enjoy.
     
    lazydawg58 likes this.
  6. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    Did you give him a counter offer? What's it worth? I would have nicely told him that, "you told me the same thing last year. Since it hasn't moved at that price for at least a year I would think, $____ would be a reasonable price." And when I said that, it would be a price less than I would be willing to pay. Maybe you two could settle on a price that works for both of you?
     
    caravan70 and ARK like this.
  7. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    That's a hard rule there, but seems easily explained by your last sentence. Would it be safe to categorize you as a "reluctant buyer"?

    This day and time, selling at a record show you would be hard pressed to break even if $10 was the top price for your offerings. While there might be plenty of $7-$12 in the mix there would also be plenty of $14-$22 as well. And some significantly more than that. I've hauled bargain bin records to a show and believe me, the physical effort required to load, unload, load and unload those boxes far outweighs any money generated.
     
  8. nosliw

    nosliw Delivering parcels throughout Teyvat! Meow~!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Honestly, I kind of see it happening back in the mid to late 2010s with metal CDs as I've been buying as many good titles of both old and new as possible. I still cannot believe I bought great titles like Razor's Shotgun Justice and Malevolent Creation's The Ten Commandments for $2 each in 2019 at the record fair. With the COVID lockdown, I scoured through many Facebook sales, ads, eBay, Discogs, and flea markets/individual sellers through classified ads as much as possible and got even more metal albums with some that are priced insanely cheap. And at that point is where we see the insanity of original/early CDs going for stupid prices but I still come across titles that are priced okay/typical of a usual used CD price. Even better if I come across them at thrift stores, but they're generally far and few between even beforehand.

    On the topic of matrix runout and SID codes, I've seen discussions on a couple metal CD collector Facebook groups as I've seen people questioning if they got unofficial/fake replicas. But then again, who knows where the second hand CD market goes? I think some sub-genres will retain crazy prices due to legitimate scarcity and difficulty to source (example being Japanese video game soundtracks, particularly early Famicom/Super Famicom titles and arcade scores) and it's metal's turn to experience it.
     
  9. Bigsweetc6

    Bigsweetc6 Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Los Angeles
    I didn’t even make an offer because his asking was so wildly divergent from the actual value. The record routinely sells around $130-$250 range. He said a perfect copy goes for $600 but he’d accept $450. I looked online. The highest one sold ever was around $450. His copy was vg cover very worn and the discs were strong vg. I actually owned many of the other records he was selling so I was quite familiar with the market and prices and just out of curiosity I’d ask a price since none had stickers and he’d quote something like double the price it normally should be. I honestly don’t know who’s buying this stuff from him. Shame because he had some cool stuff but I’m not paying $100 for $40 record and I’m certainly not paying $450 for an OG Cure “Wish” in pretty good VG condition when there’s a bunch online for sale at better condition around $150-$225. It’s sellers like this that take the fun out of the hobby for me.
     
  10. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    Gotcha, guess he's one (and there's always at least one at a show) that should simply be passed by. I would expect there would be a number of others that have a more realistic grasp on the market. But I'd still have been tempted to call him on the price and offer him $90 for it. Maybe he would take $150?
     
  11. CCrider92

    CCrider92 Senior Member

    Location:
    Cape Cod, MA
    I used to come home with 10 to 15 LPs. One dealer that I got to know well would look at what I was going to buy and would say give me $50 - a knock off 15 - 20 $ of the total.
     
    lazydawg58 likes this.
  12. Warand Pain

    Warand Pain Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
    True, the metal CD prices began to rise in around 2020 and later. I remember getting the early Iron Maiden CDs for 2-5 just a couple of years ago from Ebay and now those are 10-20 items. As you said, it is still possible to find deals from sellers who are pricing their stuff to sell. Btw. Great find that Razor! Also people shouldnt have too much expectations to find any underground metal at flea markets, but it is still rarely possible. I did found original Cadaver/Carnage split CD for 3 euros couple of years ago from flea market and didnt first believe my eyes. I think some people might have false picture of 2nd hand CD market at the moment. Things have moving so fast in last couple of years. Much faster than with the 2nd hand vinyl back in 90s and early 2000s. The rare and wanted CDs arent sitting on flea market shelves anymore. I mean some people are probably thinking you can get original Darkthrone CD for cheap because some remastered Judas Priest CD is priced low and they are both on just the boring CD format. Some good deals I found past couple of years for example are Mayhem Deathcrush 1st press 10 euros or something, 2nd press of De mysteriis 20e, Beherit 1st 2nd Turbo press 5e, many Darkthrone early presses for 10-25e, Incantation 1st album 1st press 8e, Obituary 1st album 1st press 10e many more death black thrash metal. Many of NWOBHM&US-metal, traditional Euro metal CDs for 3-30e, I mean those re-issues by labels like Cult Metal, High Roller etc. It feels like with the vinyl back in the 90s... even the titles are the same! basic stuff like Witchfynde, Exciter, Anvil, Anthrax, Megadeth, Venom, Possessed, Hirax, Hellhammer, Messiah, Repulsion, Slaughter, Steeler (us and ger), Living Death, Mausoleum rec stuff etc etc. Also now its good time to build Black Sabbath, Priest, Iron Maiden , Thin Lizzy, Motorhead, etc bigger bands CD collections from early presses still for reasonable yet not cheap anymore prices. I have a theory why theres still a kind of healthy market for common metal and underground metal CDs, and in my opinion it is because many underground metal people are into vinyl now. They are not yet coming back to the CDs as many of those people sold their CDs in 2010 when switching to the vinyl. I can be wrong also. English is not my 1st language, sorry.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2023
    mstoelk and nosliw like this.
  13. nosliw

    nosliw Delivering parcels throughout Teyvat! Meow~!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Going through charity/thrift stores do you rarely come across any metal from my own experience, but I do remember getting some interesting titles like an early CD reissue of Tiamat's Sumerian Cry, Samael's Blood Ritual (promo), a few Deicide albums, and Ceremonium's Into The Autumn Shade but they are obviously far and few between. When it comes to non-metal, that's a different story as I still can find lots of great and interesting titles. eBay is not exactly the place to find cheap bargains nowadays, but I still come across great finds for cheaper-than-Discogs prices like original CDs of Demolition Hammer's Epidemic of Violence and Tortured Existence, Possessed's Seven Churches (Combat CD), and Hellbastard's Heading for Internal Darkness. I've also bought bulk purchases of a hundred to several hundred CDs as well, which definitely help mitigate costs big time and I got titles like Incantation's Onward to Golgotha original CD, the first two Dissection albums, Artillery's By Inheritance Roadracer CD, and Dark Funeral's first mini-album. I think at this point that bulk sales from local places is the way, IMO.

    When it comes to various original CDs, I resorted to going through different channels such as Facebook Marketplace and their private sellers through metal CD collector Facebook groups and local people in my city. Because of high shipping costs, I also go through Canadian sellers as it costs $5 for shipping and $1 for additional CDs and even through bulk Discogs purchases from Sweden and UK. The "very common" titles for hard rock and metal albums can still be found for nice-to-okay prices but I already got most of the titles that I needed though but I rarely come across any Hellhammer, Hirax, Messiah, Repulsion, Living Death, Witchfynde, and Exciter from my own experience, never mind remasters outside of releases from High Roller Records, etc.
     
  14. Steven J

    Steven J Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cleveland
    Most sellers are collectors too and sometimes there's a blurry line between inventory and personal collection. I'd say this seller wasn't fully interested in parting with that record and buyers would have to pay a premium to motivate him. I'd chalk it up to being a record that wasn't really for sale in the first place. Or it could be an "attention getter" for display that, again, isn't really intended to be sold.
     
    lazydawg58 and eddiel like this.
  15. Bigsweetc6

    Bigsweetc6 Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Los Angeles
    Maybe. However his entire inventory was not priced. I intentionally, out of curiosity, asked for information on a few other titles i already own-and he again quoted prices that were at least twice as much as they should have been. I mean-someone must be buying from him I just don’t know who.
     
    lazydawg58 likes this.
  16. Warand Pain

    Warand Pain Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
    When it comes to non-metal, that's a different story as I still can find lots of great and interesting titles.

    This is true and the CDs are usually in great conditions, many times almost like new condition.

    When it comes to various original CDs, I resorted to going through different channels such as Facebook Marketplace and their private sellers through metal CD collector Facebook groups and local people in my city. Because of high shipping costs, I also go through Canadian sellers as it costs $5 for shipping and $1 for additional CDs and even through bulk Discogs purchases from Sweden and UK. The "very common" titles for hard rock and metal albums can still be found for nice-to-okay prices but I already got most of the titles that I needed though but I rarely come across any Hellhammer, Hirax, Messiah, Repulsion, Living Death, Witchfynde, and Exciter from my own experience, never mind remasters outside of releases from High Roller Records, etc.[/QUOTE]

    Sorry I did mean hunting those titles on Discogs, Ebay etc. Online market places. Of course that kind of stuff is not usually available at the flea markets, but I have once picked up Metalucifer CD in flea market, hah. Only the common hard rock & heavy metal can be seen like Maiden, Metallica and Priest, but not anymore daily, not even weekly, or very rarely the big names of 90s extreme scene like COF and Sepultura, and uninteresting extreme metal titles. All Demon and Witchfynde CDs I got from online markets locally were priced 5-6 euros. People want vinyl from those kind of bands today. Btw. yesterday I did received package with CHEAP modern vinyl, Kat 666 re-issue and Militia (texas) demo collection 10 euros piece still sealed, and the still sealed CDs were 2-8 euros, new stuff, Grave, Isengard (recent album, 2e!), Asphyx, Slaughter (can of course), Cryptopsy etc. from seller from Holland with very fair prices. Of course there is and will always be extreme high priced titles on CD and vinyl. But I dont get this vinyl hype and prices are insane for common titles. Btw that Possessed CD is much more rare than its vinyl counterpart, great find! I have only seen the russian replicas of it.
     
  17. Albiegator

    Albiegator Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    I went to the VIP Victoria record fair in London yesterday. It opened at 10am and was still reasonably busy and bustling when I got there mid afternoon. I find it's normally a good fair to get deals on box sets but I probably turned up too late for that.
    Predictably, lots of over priced vinyl was on show but there were still some reasonable deals for the patient browser. I got near mint UK 1st pressings of ‘A Secret Wish’ by Propaganda for £12 and ‘Indiscreet’ by Sparks for £10.
    A private seller also had some CDs for sale and I got the ‘Beano’ Bluesbreakers 90s repress and a 2000s repress of the Who's ‘The Kids Are Alright’ for £1.50 each.
    I only noticed when I got home that a signature had been scrawled on the front, probably not really Pete Townshend though!
     
    lazydawg58 likes this.
  18. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    I can't imagine not putting a price on each record. The idea that I could possibly remember the value on each record is ridiculous. A seller that does that has an unrealistic confidence in the accuracy of their memory.
     
    Twinsfan007 likes this.
  19. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    I set up at the local (Raleigh, an hour away) 4 times a year record show on Sunday. I took 462 records and sold 34. The crowd wasn't as bad as the weather, but lots of folks seemed to be just looking. I had 4 boxes of records priced at $7 or buy 6 or more $6 each. And I had 4 boxes with records individually priced, ranging from $4 to $100. I gave discounts whenever anyone bought more than one LP or when LPs were in the higher price range. I sold a boxset I had priced at $60 for $50, 3 records totaling $54 for $50, that sort of thing.

    As for CDs, the young couple with the table next to mine did a booming business, probably selling more CDs than LPs. Sellers, as usual were all over the place price wise. The most outrageous price I saw was $150 for Bill Withers Mofi Sound Lab Still Bill. At the other extreme there was a seller that had everything as half off the sticker. I ended up buying a bunch from him. Several were $2-$3 which I plan on improving (clean, new sleeves) to resell for $8 at my vintage shop table. I got the Ricky Skaggs & Tony Rice - Skaggs & Rice LP from him for $10! That is a $30-$40 record. From other sellers I got nice Jazz, Soul, Blues and Rock albums for very reasonable prices. In all I bought 25 records for $125. Prices were reasonable if you shopped the right sellers and didn't just buy the first copy you saw. For instance, Steely Dan Pretzel Logic, 1974 pressing was $30 from one seller but across the room in was $20 and I got that price down to $15.

    I believe we had discussed the demographics of the shows earlier in this thread, so I paid attention. No more than 10% were females. And 80% of the crowd were males over 45. No more than 10% were "young people" meaning high school or college age. But despite the stereotype, I didn't smell anyone. Ha!!!!
     
    caravan70, Albiegator and Mylene like this.
  20. Carmano

    Carmano Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The last time I went to a record show (in the US Midwest), I was heckled by dealers as I was digging through boxes of CDs on the floor. "."CDs are sure convenient, but that's all they're good for!" "Never liked CDs!". When I bought a CD from a dealer, he sneered and said "You want that?" He already had my $$$ in hand or I would have walked away empty-handed. I usually check out the vintage Jazz vinyl, but I left without even bothering to look.

    No more. I'll buy at thrift stores, eBay, or Amazon.
     
    lazydawg58 likes this.
  21. Chee

    Chee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver
    They probably listed the OOP titles on eBay already and adjusted their big belly hiding shirts.
     
  22. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    That's weird. You would have thought they wouldn't have been selling them if they felt that way. I've never experienced anything like that. Maybe it's a Midwest thing?
     
  23. Andy B UK

    Andy B UK Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Northampton
    Is anyone that has been to a VIP record fair in the UK able to give some idea of CD representation? I am considering going to the one in Leicester tomorrow, but with an hour's travel each way, plus zero interest in vinyl, I would hate to find minimal CDs available.
     
  24. The last two I went to there was no CDs on sale,even charity shops have little stock.
    If I was you I would try to contact some of the vendors asking what stock they intend to sell,it might save you some time and effort.
    Mind you its worth the effort to travel to Leicester if just for a Chicken Balti.
     
  25. Judge Drokk

    Judge Drokk New Member

    Location:
    Barnsley
    I'm only in Barnsley and it's a quick trip on the train to Leeds - I keep tellingmyself I am going to go to the Leeds fair, but then spend too much on DISCOGS and some eBAY stuff... I have eclectic tastes and also put myself off thinking that I'll not find what I want among all the "regular" stuff... Stones, Beatles, Who, Floyd, Punk, New Wave, Ska, etc - when I am actually looking for Japanese drummers like Jimmy Takeuchi, plus Lounge, Space Age, Exotica, Spy-Jazz, Les Baxter... etc...
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine