Records noisier after cleaning - any ideas?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by LivingForever, Jul 5, 2021.

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  1. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Alright, @avanti1960 had a point - I'd done a lot of talking in the last week, but not actually done/tried much.

    I was extremely sceptical about the AT6012 cleaning pad, how much difference could something which cost £16 possibly make? However, it *was* only £16 so I didn't have a lot to lose.

    It arrived on Friday and I just had a chance to try it this morning. First of all, tried putting the supplied fluid in the holes like the instructions suggest, but absolutely no sign of the fluid coming through to the brush after 10 mins so in the end I applied it direct to the middle of the brush. Started with a dry brush from the front edge, rolled over onto the wet part for a few rotations, and then onto the back edge to dry it off.

    "Here we go", I thought, expecting nothing at all. Played side 1 of the last previously-cleaned record I'd started playing on Friday afternoon. Absolutely silent. Not a trace of the crackle I was getting so used to.

    "This can't be?" I thought... and then remembered that I had played at least some of side 1 already on Friday so perhaps it was the first pass of the stylus which had removed whatever was causing the crackle?

    So I played the first 30 seconds of side 2, experienced the usual crackle, then did the same AT6012 treatment on side 2 and then played the entire side - again DEAD SILENT.

    CONCLUSION: I know this is a very unscientific sample of 1 record, but it seems that the AT6012 cleaning pad with its supplied fluid was able to remove in a few seconds whatever was causing the crackle on this particular cleaned record.

    Now I'm VERY interested to see if this is repeated across the lot, praying that it is!
     
    wvsteveo, Dan Steely, JohnO and 4 others like this.
  2. WDeranged

    WDeranged Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Great news. Keep us updated!
     
  3. MarkD51

    MarkD51 Audio Maniac

    Location:
    Chicago Illinois
    Not at all responding to comment about the AT tool you have recently gotten and have found favorable results with. In fact I'll say that's good that you've heard improvement. It appears to be a step in the right direction.

    What I and others could perhaps wonder about now, was what actual degree of cleaning was done, and what fell short with the cleanings they had done beforehand? Residues left behind, a poor rinse, poor cleaners? Or?

    Not sure because this thread is multiple pages long at this point to go read back over every one of your posts, but did you personally witness them doing the cleaning procedures they claimed they did?
     
  4. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    I did not witness them cleaning my records - however, when I dropped off my records, I was taken into the back room where this would all be happening, shown all the equipment and solultions that were being used, and saw some other customers' records drying at the end of the process. I don't have any reason to suspect any sort of fraud or that the advertised process has actually not been used. All I can think is that there was some residue left on the records, or that some of the mould and grime that I knew to be in a few of them managed to contaminate the others through the cleaning fluid.

    However the entire process used by the store PLUS the simple brush with the AT6012 now seems to have given me the exact result I was hoping for. I would be very VERY surprised, with the level of dirt and noise that was on some of these records, I would have got the same result just from the AT6012. So I have to conclude that the store's cleaning methods did basically work, but for whatever reason on my batch of records something went slightly wrong and some residue was left behind.
     
  5. Angry_Panda

    Angry_Panda Pipe as shown, slippers not pictured

    Ehhhhhhhh.

    I've slowly come around to the opinion that any liquid remaining on a record should be vacuumed off - if there's anything suspended/dissolved in the liquid and it's allowed to evaporate, guess where that stuff winds up. I'm sure there are people who have good luck with a clean water rinse and air dry, but I've never been one of them - in my (120 year old) house, dust is already a losing battle with dry records. I don't need to compound that.
     
    33na3rd likes this.
  6. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Sounds like so-far-, so-good.

    I clean my brush between uses using a small nylon bristle brush. I just sweep with the grain of the cloth. One of the reasons I like using uncut alcohol (91% iso) is that it evaporates from the pad by the time I'm ready for the next side. So I brush the pad, add more fluid, clean side two, and drop the needle.

    Also, sometimes it takes more than a single attempt to clean a noisy album (like a thrift store find). I often like to listen to new acquisitions more than once, so I just clean it before each play and it continues to quiet. I've cleaned albums gobs of times with the 6012 with no negative consequences, albums just getting more quiet.

    When I've been using the pad quiet a bit, I rinse it out with tap water and then dry it by blotting with a paper towel, and then let it air dry the rest of the way. I'll do this maybe once a week or every other week, if I've been adding lots of dirty records to my collection.
     
    LivingForever likes this.
  7. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Just how big do you think a molecule is, anyway?

    What you see of a stylus tip is so much bigger than the actual groove and contact area:
    [​IMG]

    Groove wall: 50 micrometers:

    [​IMG]

    The similar scale of cotton fibers, like the lint that might settle on a record:
    [​IMG]


    zoom in 50x; 150 blu-ray grooves can fit in one LP groove wall, also made with mothers and stampers.
    [​IMG]


    20x more zoom to the size of one blu-ray pit, micelles formed of molecules more complex than detergents encapsulating oils, requiring TEM imaging - of lubrication. This picture is like looking at 1/200th the width of a human hair or record brush fiber, and might as well be an image of the surface of a graphite carbon black particle in the vinyl:

    [​IMG]
     
    tryitfirst and Gumboo like this.
  8. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Did I not say, "And chances are, most people using detergents aren't rinsing anywhere near well enough to leave only a single molecular layer behind?"

    If you want to argue, you're going to need to give me something I can at least sink my teeth into.
     
  9. t4t3r

    t4t3r Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Can OP provide the name of the seller from whom you purchased the AT6012? Wouldn’t mind having one as a spot cleaner or when I only have a record or two to freshen up and would like to make sure I get the original white-handled version.
     
  10. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    congrats. FYI the AT6012 is the best pre play LP cleaner i have ever used but it is not a wet cleaner. it is used for pre play dust removal and anti static.
    my guess is your LPs were full of static from the shop, especially if they did not use a new anti static sleeve post cleaning.
     
  11. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    they sell them at LP Gear and Amazon
     
  12. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Look what I found

    Location:
    AZ
    Because if you put "AT6012" in a browser search box... :)
     
  13. t4t3r

    t4t3r Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Right but that doesn’t mean you may not get the newer black handled version. I was wanting to find a seller who would definitely send the original as the OP experienced. I am familiar with how to use search boxes.
     
  14. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Well sildenafil was original developed for hypertension, but they found it works great for, well, you know...

    There is nothing about the AT6012 that makes it unsuitable for wet cleaning. It is actually an ideal wet cleaner, it doesn't shed, has directional fibers, a curved surface so it can wet & dry.

    And it is great at cleaning-up RCM induced crackle.
     
    LivingForever likes this.
  15. MarkD51

    MarkD51 Audio Maniac

    Location:
    Chicago Illinois
    I've never gotten RCM induced crackle, ever.

    But, perhaps the next test for the OP is now to find another record that might be in dire need of cleaning.
    Just try your new tools, and routine and see what results you get?

    Distilled water is inexpensive, and better than using tap water basically no matter where you live.
    Such can be used as a final rinse on a record, and can also be used to periodically clean the brush pad as well. Shake after and let the Brush Pad air dry.

    If and when you run out of the existing cleaning fluid that came with the Tool, I'm sure you can source some decent properly made cleaners locally that won't empty your bank account.
     
  16. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    There are a lot of variables, like how clean the records are to start, how good a job one does cleaning the cleaning gear (brushes, suction wands, etc.).

    No single data point can invalidate another.
     
  17. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Great.
    Now you need to clean that 6012 brush every so often, and I usually do every side. The little rubber thing on the side of its holding tray is not great for that and will fall out.

    Just a cheap straight bristle toothbrush is just right to brush off the 6012 brush!
     
    LivingForever likes this.
  18. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    You could demonstrate this for the shop that did the bad cleaning, and ask them to reimburse you for the 6012 kit.
     
    LivingForever likes this.
  19. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    i tried it as a wet cleaner. over filling the reservoir made it too wet so that too much liquid was left on the LP.
    i also tried adding drops directly to the pad but the pad repelled the liquid and did not absorb like the old discwasher pads do. IMO a poor wet cleaner but an excellent pre play cleaner / dust off / anti static when used as intended.
    there are much better wet clean methods and products and using this is no substitute for a proper cleaning process.
     
  20. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Maybe not, but it does seem to fix the issue if one has done a bad job with one's "proper cleaning process".

    By the way, the one I took delivery of this morning does seem to take in the liquid (after a couple of seconds) when applied directly to the pad, so it hits the sweet spot between too wet/ too dry.
     
  21. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Nice guess but incorrect. The shop had zapped each of them with the Zerostat and put each of them in a new antistatic sleeve. The records have none of the visual telltale signs of static, and I have since tried treating them with the Zerostat again which does absoutely nothing,
     
  22. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    I can do but sadly it may won't help you because it was their last one, and also they are in the UK. But sure, please feel free to send me a message if you want to know. :)
     
  23. t4t3r

    t4t3r Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Thanks. I noticed after my post that you were referencing UK currency so I realized it probably wouldn’t matter. Glad you were able to get some resolution to your issues!
     
    LivingForever likes this.
  24. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    The last online US store, that I knew of, that definitely had the white handle version and knew the difference is now sold out and not carrying the black handle X version.

    At this second I see a private seller on eBay has a NOS one with his photo of the exact AT6012 kit he is selling with white handle. Other eBay listings are using a stock picture, and could probably ship the black X version because they don't know or care about the difference.
     
    LivingForever likes this.
  25. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    There seem to be several on UK eBay, I imagine if people get desperate they might think about importing one!
     
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