Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by PNeski@aol.com, Feb 22, 2013.
I know this is Old news ,but is there any truth to these stories?
From what i have read, Red Rose contracted out to China to have the Red Rose products made for them.
All would have been fine, except someone in China (probably at the factory where the Red Rose stuff was being produced) was able to make piles of the product on the side..and then sell it far cheaper via the grey market than the Red Rose 'official' product.
This is the biggest danger of production in China. Seems the Chinese have no problems doing stuff like that at all.
So after a short while the news got out.
Red Rose products could be bought for much much less from the grey market.
So yes it IS true actual seemingly identical product to Red Rose could be bought in the grey market for far less than official product.
Whether that is still true i have no idea. I would actually bet some other companies have started making knockoffs of the design to steal some of the business. and so what is NOW being marketed is probably trash which just look similar.
Sad state of affairs for Red Rose. But they want to make the stuff cheap, and got the Karma which goes with it.
Same problem for AudioQuest cables now. plenty of grey market real AQ cables..way less than retailUS prices coming out of China.
Thanks that explains it!
Red Rose was trash from day one. The only thing they put out that was almost worthwhile was their SACDs...
Reads like a 'blowhard' So which of thier products did you own? Oh none. Which did your close friends own? Oh, none. Good luck.
Mark Levinson who started Red Rose was a great designer. Calling his products 'trash' is a disservice to all audiophiles.
His real flaw was his business practices.. Ditto Bob Carver.
I demo'd most of their line at their shop in Chicago. I was sorely disappointed. The Levinson brand was outstanding. Red Rose, not so much...
Oops, I meant NYC...
Yes, they're true.
BTW, 'Hurdy Gurdy Man' is a perfect album.
If this thread is about Red Rose Music , i can assure you only a few R.R.M. sub chassis were made in China , all assembly and testing was done in the U.S. with exception of a few things being designed and developed in dear old England and two from Switzerland .
I collect R.R.M. and Cello gear if anyone here would like to rid themselves of such .
A cult of personality arose around Levinson a long time ago. Totally. I don't believe his hype on any of his products. Although, his new stuff (Daniel Hertz) doesn't look too bad.
This is one of several issues with producing in China.
Quality of Chinese built product can range from superb to abysmal and it can look outwardly identical. The place that makes the sheetmetal will sell to anyone, ditto the transformers, the boards, etc. The only way to assure consistency is to own the factory and do it all in house, and at the levels of volume in this business it's cheaper to do it domestically. Companies like Apple can deal with large ODMs who have enough to lose that this can be controlled, if not eliminated, but for a one or two man company it's hopeless.
Western concepts of intellectual property do not apply in China. Your sheetmetal, your board layouts, your circuits, your transformer winding schemes, everything, are anyone else's who wants them too. Worse, they'll sell an identical LOOKING product with a BOM costing half of what yours does maybe with YOUR name and logo to someone wanting a container load. Or your design, including firmware will show up in a different looking enclosure under another brand. The permutations are endless.
Just so you know, Mark Levinson never designed a circuit in his life. He hired some great designers to work for him in the early days, but the man couldn't design a preamplifier if his life depended on it. And yes, I owned a lot of ML gear from that era... Enjoyed quite a bit of it. Mark Levinson was an excellent frontman/promoter. Always has been, still is.
He is an excellent promoter, but one has to question the, ahem , technical knowledge of a guy who writes a "marriage manual" -with Kim Cattrall -and then they get divorced....
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