Reference Degritter: $7k

Was really looking forward to see what was coming next from Degritter. Though the specs and capabilities of the new machine sound promising, the price is just insanity to me.
I’m insane about records, can’t get enough, currently I have a Cyclone and would like to get into ultrasonic cleaners but I just can’t swallow these prices to clean records. Maybe I’m alone in this but at $7k in a global recession I can’t believe there will be too many takers. Hopefully things will settle and more competition will come into this space. For now, I’ll stick to the Cyclone with my fingers crossed I win the lotto and have 4 reference Degritter’s running at all times.

 

What happens to the original Degritter? Is it going to still be available?

 

Yes, maybe they will upgrade that one eventually with trickle down from the reference. If the standard one had both frequencies like the reference, I’d stick with that.

 

DIY. Which is now not so demanding of skills- you can buy the parts and put it together --maybe not the most expensive industrial or medical grade bath, but upgrade that over time. The ancillaries are the interesting part to me and give you a potentially better feature set than most made for LP ultrasonic products.
I have not seen anything about this new Degritter- just out of curiosity, is there public information that can be shared from a web page or the like?
PS: I found the reference to the Reference in the Degritter thread- Satrus posting.

 

The recent Degritter update about the release of the dual tank advanced premium version in 2023 also discussed a new software update for the current version to be released the fall of 2022 that includes making manually changing the reservoirs easier for those that do a clean water rinse. This is what the premium machine will do automatically with two built in reservoirs. I believe this indicates continued support and probably continued production of the current model. A single offering of a $7,000 premier cleaner would price them out of business IMHO. I do love my Degritter and the support the company has provided when there was an issue even though, being a early adopter, it was out of the two year warranty period.

 

If we look at the price that the Humminguru can be bought for, and the basic quality of that machine ( which IMO is not shabby), then we compare the Degritter and the new Reference model ( at apparently $7K), one has to seriously question the value of the Degritter's ( both models, but the new Reference particularly!). Whilst the power of the Degritter is undoubtedly higher than the 'Guru', the cost of the new Degritter machine seems to be out of line...
OTOH, I suppose that Degritter is looking at what the KL is being sold for by AS, and the price of the Audio Desk ( also way up there)... and apparently seeing little competition??

 

Better is an enemy of good.

 

Indeed. But in this case is better worth fifteen or more times the price???

 

I think he is saying the same thing as you? Is increased cost of "better" truly better than the less expensive "good". Also, I could wrong...

 

Well, the answer to that is simple: we don't know. And the price is high.
I'm not partial to any brand. I've owned the Audio Desk through several iterations, and have had the KL which has served me well.
At the cost of 7K, you could easily do state of the art, multiple baths, filtering, cooling, degas and multiple frequencies. If the question is how cheaply you can do it, I'd say look at a quality bath that isn't going to crap out without recourse, figure out frequency and spin, add filtering, figure out if you want a surfactant in the bath since you will then have to deal with removing it, consider what method you want to dry and you can be in far cheaper. Or have a far better system for less. But, as to this system, we don't know- and I suspect the manufacturer won't know until they employ and trial some units, change software and fine tune.
The science is available. I suspect most people aren't going to pay 7k grand for an RCM. (I've got more than that in RCMs, but I'm special* ).
* Not necessarily in a good way.

 

Is $7,000 for an RCM more or less offensive than the light box?

 

Bill, I 'AB'ed the KL and the DeGritter against my Humminguru. The results were interesting. The 'Guru' is definitely less capable of deep cleaning than the other two, however with a pre-wash with a good vacuum and using surfactant with the 'Guru' vs. no pre-wash with the other two, i found the end results to be quite similar. The savings are quite significant even if you have a 'Guru' and a good vacuum machine vs. the DG and the KL. I do think the KL is (was) built better than the other two, although time will tell with the 'Guru' ( which seems to be well built and is holding up well so far).

 

Well, In my case it will be 2x the price, but still...
In this case I also worry about complexity of the unit. Simpler machine is generally more reliable.
I have example on superautomatic coffee machine.
I bought the simplest machine - De'Longhi Magnifica. It was $600 and is as plain as possible - no screen, just 2 buttons really (single or double shot), fully manual milk frother. Loud also.
But this machine lasted 8 years and probably 10-15 thousands espresso shots, and never had issues before it just gave up )). I then got myself exactly the same )).
My friends have way more expensive and sophisticated with automatic frothers, touch screens and bunch of useless modes. They complained about frequent failures, long repairs, etc.
Last time I visited the guy who not a long time ago got himself $3K machine he made me coffee in Keurig .
Now, all this machines are automatic and do pretty much the same coffee. All the additional features make it tiny way more convenient (like it already not already super convenient) for a huge price increase and reduced reliability.
I love my Degritter, but I suspect I would be as happy with "Degritter Light", for example without the screen, 2 or 3 prefixed drying modes, etc -but I doubt it would change machine price much..

 

And the "Guru" retails for how much @DaveyF ?

 

Degritter Light = HumminGuru. About $475 and works robustly. Buy two, devote one to cleaning fluid and the other to rinse and, using together, clean 10 records in 55 minutes. They work effortlessly and the controls are well-designed.

 

thanks.

 

How is ultrasound noise? I could not stand sound of 40 kHZ 5L bath of my rotisserie cleaner..

 

Keep in mind the word is they will be doing a trade in price for current Degritter users. That might push it in to the more doable range for some. And of course, there's always the market for which the cost of the reference Degritter is chump change. The original Degritter was already seen as an "insane" purchase by most 'regular joe' vinyl lovers, so it's all about perspective.

 

It’s high-end. Not HiFi.
Money doesn’t matter - except to the salesmen of course.

 

Money always matter

 

Ikr, I meant that most people who buy high-end equipment don’t give a rats ass about a few grant more or less.

 

The noise is there and while it is not deafening, it is not pleasant. Depends somewhat on the rollers used to turn the record that are replaceable and on the side of each unit, easily accessible. If you use tape on the machine edge side you can make sure that records produced slightly too small will still turn and if you experiment with thickness, you can somewhat reduce the noise. But it is there and not a plus.
Would add this perspective on cost. I purchase lots of equipment and am willing to spend five figures for audio performance. My life is about imagining musical sound recreation goals then acquiring the equipment necessary to satisfy those goals.
For me, cleaning records is necessary but not an important musical item. Having cleaned a thousand or so records in the last 4 years with 4 different cleaning devices ranging from manual, through automated, through US I have found that while the amount of improvement varies with US being the best, it still will not make a poor record listenable.
Consequently, I am not going to pay a lot for a device that, ultimately, is only going to be only partly successful. So I'm not spending more than $500 on any record cleaner.

 

For $7K you’re better off financially just throwing dirty records in the trash and buying new ones.

 

If it will be so easy…)))Even so cooled “collector’s copy”, costing hundreds of $, often covered by decades worth of tar, dust, dirt…

 

The new Degritter talks about a dual frequency unit adding 80kHz to the already 120kHz, addressing that the 80kHz will add cleaning power. However, the benefit of the 80kHz for heavy cleaning (pre-clean) is likely over-stated. Consider that the difference between 80kHz and 120kHz which is 1.5; but the actual wavelength difference is 19.1mm vs 12.7mm; it's not that big a difference. Now consider the difference between the 37kHz/80kHz Elmasonic which is 2.2; but the wavelength difference is 41.3mm vs 19.1mm - that's a big difference. The 37-40kHz frequency is a good frequency for pre-clean while the 80-120kHz is good for final clean.

But when you are trying to clean a record covered with decades worth of tar, dust, dirt, you need chemistry. Ultrasonics with just a nonionic surfactant are not going to do it. You need the heavy cleaning performance of anionic surfactants (such as Liquinox) but they bring foam which for these compact convenient all-in-one UT like Degritter or KLAudio with auto fill and drain is a non-starter, and I suspect the HG with auto pumped drain may also be a problem. So, a separate pre-clean step is still required.

Industrial precision clean UT consoles have multiple tanks, the 1st being a UT pre-clean (with aggressive chemistry), 2nd being UT final clean (with a gentle chemistry), 3rd UT being the first rinse and maybe a 4th tank (no UT) being the seconds final rinse, and the 5th bay an oven. The first final rinse (often an ultrasonic tank) uses Purified-water to remove residual final cleaner, while the second final rinse (cascading into the first rinse via a pumped filter/demineralizer system drawing suction on the 1st rinse tank) is performed with Pure-water to remove the Purified-water and any contaminants and achieve final cleanliness free of residue.

What's missing from the DIY scene is a convenient slot-type spinner; the skewer-type while good for multiple records are not convenient unless using the Kuzma system that allows you move stacks of records from one tank to another tima's DIY RCM | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet! (whatsbestforum.com).

The operative words being compact & convenient.

Just food for thought.