Rega Brio (2017) or Saga+ & Vidar?

Hello all,

I'm new here, though I've been browsing for the better part of a year (you guys helped me in choosing a new turntable, so thanks!) . I'm currently in the process of upgrading my old system and the last piece of gear I need to replace is my amp. My current setup is this:

Rega Planar 3 with Nagaoka mp110
Schiit Mani
NAD 7140
Klipsch RP160m's

While I like my NAD, it's starting to really show its age (phono section crapped out, thus the mani purchase). So I'm looking to get either a decent integrated amp or enter the world of separates. As of now, I'm looking at the Rega Brio 2017 or the Saga+ and Vidar. However, I have no experience with passive preamps, so I was wondering if the Saga would be the better fit as opposed to the brio? I tend to enjoy a more full bodied sound as I mainly listen to metal, so having some weight to the music is important to me. The system is in a moderate sized bedroom and I listen near field (about 6 or 7 feet away from speakers).

I'm not ruling out a Freya+ either, however I have no experience with tube gear. If there's another integrated or separate combo under $2000 that may fit better though I'm open to suggestions.

 

Get a Brio and sell the Mani.
-Bill

 

+1 for the brio. I suppose synergy is something to take into account seeing as I have a rega TT. How good is the phono stage on the brio?

 

Enter the world of separates. Integrates are a compromise and although simpler do not offer the flexibility and easy changes to a system as it grows.

 

My thinking about the separates was that it would help "future proof" my system a bit, especially with the 100w Vidar. So when I get more space the only thing I have to upgrade would be speakers. That's one of the minor hangups with the brio, as it only offers 50w, which is more than enough for my klipsches but maybe not for future speakers. Although if people the brio sounds a bit better for the money I'd be willing to make that compromise.

 

I second Bill.

The recent Brio, in my opinion, is an improvement on the -R version. More full-bodied, while retaining the rhythmic drive of the previous version(s). Full disclosure -- I've not heard any Schiit gear.* But my response every time I hear a Brio being demo'd at my local hifi boutique is, "Why did I buy all these black boxes?!"


*I'd love to hear a Ragnarok! ... Does the Schiit gear you're considering have tone controls? IMO, they might be a good thing with Klipsch speakers ...

 

I wish I had a hifi store near me that wasn't a 5 hour drive away. Would make this a lot easier. The mani is all I own by them, so I don't think I have a great reference point for their gear other than build quality (which is great). Surprisingly, the phono stage in the NAD was pretty close in sound to the mani going from memory, but I digress.

+1 brio. Thank you all for the replies so far.

 

No, but they do offer an EQ separate should I need it.

 

To date the best sound I've gotten with Klipsch speakers is using a passive switcher similar to the Saga. My Coda amp has an input impedance of 50k ohms, which is great. Horns are lively and the passive brings transparency and zero gain, which is good with Klipsch. However, with my other speakers I use a tube preamp, which offers more gain, which the Klipsch don't need. The Vidar has an input impedance of 22K ohms, I think, which is a bit low imo for using a passive although the Saga and Freya also have the flexibility of buffer stages to address that problem.

 

I emailed Klipsch about the gain and they said the Saga and Vidar would be no problem for my needs. The thing I worry about is losing weight to my sound. I know the Saga is supposed to be transparent, but does it still translate weight to the music? If that makes sense.

 

I've never had a Saga, but I would think the tube buffer stage could help with that if needed.

 

Read up on saga reviews here and other forums, you will be hard pressed to find any negatives. I am very pleased with mine (being very sceptical about the schiit gear), and will not be looking for another preamp anytime soon. I use mine with a Parasound a23 amp.

 

I had a similar question recently.

I got myself the Vidar and the Saga and love it. Yes I do find it very transparent. Is transparent full bodies? I don’t know. Still I find it very dynamic and clear.
The tube does make it a bit fatter sounding.
I would recommend it and think it is a good investment. But I am no metal head.

 

I would also agree that my saga / parasound a23 combo sounds very dynamic!

 

I have a friend who listens to a lot of metal, and he loves the Brio.

 

What are his speakers ? My 87db's were no match for a brio.

 

I use Rega RX3s with a Brio and I think the combo sounds great with heavy rock (Sabbath, Slayer, RATM, Ozzy, etc.)

 

I purchased a used Brio (2017) a while back and for me and my setup, it's about perfect. I looked at several other integrateds and in the end it was b/w the Rega and the Yamaha 801. My decision came down to form factor. The Yamaha is pretty big and I needed something smaller. The Brio was the perfect size. I have it paired with a pair of Spendor SP1/2e's and that combo is kind of mind blowing. How can a 25 year old speaker with a plastic cone sound this good?

Would it work for you? Who knows. Not me that's for sure. If you could get a home demo with a generous return policy, then maybe take a test drive. Another course might be PS Audio's deal on their Stellar series. The Gain Cell Pre/DAC plus the S300 amplifier goes for 2700-ish and you could trade in any old equipment that you have for the full retail up to 840 bucks. Then you'd get 30 days of trial time to see if you like it. I got the M700 combo and it's really nice, although it's something of a love/hate relationship.

Good luck!

 

Thank you all for the replies. I decided to go with the Brio and it arrived yesterday, so far I've put about 5 hours on it.

First off, I have the dreaded Rega hum, it's audible from my listening position (6ft away), but I don't know if it's a deal breaker really. It's quiet and doesn't get louder with the volume or interfere with the music unless it goes dead quiet.

Now the sound... Holy smokes, this thing is CLEAR compared to the NAD. I feels like a haze was lifted in terms of detail. At first I thought it was bright but after a few moments I realized it was.. Transparent? Is that what I'm hearing, actual transparency? The brio is also quick. The drumming on Deathspell Omega's "Fas" is on point, every snap separated and distinct which is quite a feat. Cymbals sound fantastic, as well do vocals. Imaging is better than the NAD, as well as sound stage.

The bass isn't necessarily lacking compared to the NAD, but it's certainly more controlled and better defined, tighter. I can't say I miss the tone controls as the brio is balanced pretty much to how I had my NAD set up, except better in how it handles everything.

If anyone knows how to get rid of the hum that would be great, but from what I understand it's a design flaw if I remember correctly (something to do with the transformer). Otherwise I think I can live with it.

 

The Brio amps do not hum at all, no design flaw there. There could be a cartridge shielding issue, a cable dress issue, a power line issue, etc, but all of that is environmental. I've set-up lots of Bros and none ever have any noise. In fact, they are the most quiet amp that I have ever heard through a pair of La Scalas...

Check that your cartridge connections are tight. Also look at where the cables and components are in relation to each other. I am assuming that you only have any hum on the phono input. If you have that on a line input, something is wrong.
-Bill

 

Is the hum only audible when playing records? If so, try moving the amp further away from your turntable.

 

My first Brio had a (slight) hum issue. Got better interconnects (CD>amp), problem solved.

 

Doesn't matter the input, they all slightly hum. It's audible on headphones as well. Tried different sockets while turning off/unplugging anything else in the room. Same deal. I've read others have the same problem but I've yet to see a solution, or the exact cause. The amp is on a shelf below the turntable, almost a foot away so I don't think it's too close.

 

My dealer also confirmed that some brio's had a hum problem so I don't think you are alone.

 

Well, I've never heard it. While it isn't impossible to hear of some product defects in any production run in any company, I have not seen this with Rega. Only the odd failure between hundreds of samples. They have very good reliability over-all. Must hum complaints from any source and with any set of components, no matter who makes them, comes down to installation problems. Most components tend to work properly in properly assembled systems within controlled environments. In other words, it's usual operator error or something else local to the customer's system when I hear complaints here. You are "relatively" local to me. I have a Brio connected here which you can listen to. You could bring yours in and see if it is quiet here or if you have an internal problem there. That'll prove it one way or the other for your unit, and you are welcome to buy this one if you find that to be the case and can return yours. It's always better to have local service.
-Bill