Rega Planar 1 sounds better than Thorens TD 160B mark ii

Bought a thorens TD 160B mark ii. The thorens has new belt, Hadcock GH220 tonearm, Tried with goldring 2200 stylus and Nagaoka MP-110. It also has a thorens approved enhancement that increases the mass of the plinth to uplift the tonal characteristic of the deck.

Did a comparison test between this and my Rega Planar 1 which is about 1 year old ... still with stock carbon cartridge on it... and the Rega sounds wayyy better?!

Is this normal?

 

The Thorens is inherently capable of outperforming the Rega, but it needs to be working properly and correctly set up, I suspect something is amiss somewhere.

 

How are you aligning the cartridge, especially with a tonearm that has different mounting distance than the stock Thorens arm? Do you have a protractor?

I'm not familiar with the Hadcock arm or it's capabilitties, but as @Dubmart says above, I'd expect it to far outperform the Rega with Carbon cartridge. The basic Rega arm design is pretty sound, though. Maybe try the Carbon on the Thorens, could be you just like that sound, the Carbon does have its fans.

 

Did you buy the Thorens online or from a shop? At the very least it will need setting up properly, the same with the arm, but considering it's likely age it may require some tlc, or some fresh oil at the very least, the Thorens is a very different animal to the Rega and requires a lot more effort to get it sounding at it's best, but for a basic Rega to beat it hands down suggests it requires a full strip down and set up by someone who knows what they are doing.

 

It was an ebay buy, there was a thread on it not long ago, he tried one with a ADC arm that didn't work out, and then got one with the Hadcock arm... Just bought a Thorens TD-160; advice?

 

The Rega is a well-regarded player (according to the one review I just read, am not really familiar with it) and is new ... Hoping the Thorens is solid, as I have an original TD-145 with stock arm (and Denon DL-160 HOMC cart, which sounds very good to me). Maybe it's the 'synergy' of the Rega with your gear/room/ears ... ?

I had a similar dilemma ... bought an Oppo DVD player for $150 way back when, it was considered maybe a 'giant killer' and had good reviews (maybe much like the Rega). Then I bought a $1500 Cambridge CD player ... huh, I couldn't tell the difference in sound !!! After repeated listenings, using the same CD on both decks, switching back and forth ... I did notice maybe a SLIGHT edge to the Cambridge, and like the external DAC input etc. so kept it. I figured my system probably just wasn't revealing enough to show the differences, and eventually I'd have something (a better pre/amp/speakers) that could.

Similarly, this corresponded with my getting the new to me then Denon DL-160 HOMC cart for the Thorens. WOW what a nice sounding pair (at least better than the previous cart). NOW, it seems like aside surface noise, the Thorens/Denon, Cambridge (and yeah probably the Oppo) are as INDENTICAL sounding as I can ascertain. Timbre, musicality, soundstage (depth/space/resolution), all of it ... seems so close in quality and even other sonic aspects so as to be the same.

I don't know what the 'moral' of this story is ... but MAYBE with longer term listening, the Thorens will 'catch up' in one or more sonic attributes to the Rega? Maybe it does something better and it just isn't notable yet? Or maybe the Rega just IS a better deck, in your system/room. (Edit/PS: yeah, and maybe the Thorens needs some TLC besides a new belt and base? I am planning on sending mine to the guy that does the good stuff to them (Dave at Vinyl Nirvana) hopefully soon.)

According to old TTs price disussion the TD160B MK II MSRP was $300 (1970? with cart? unknown). So in today's dollars that's about $2000 (sounds about right for a new Thorens). SO a similar 'dilemma' to mine ... $500 vs. $2000 plus cart should be simple to figure out which sounds better ... but in this case it's not.

 

For a 160 I'd either get a RB300 or a SME 3009, not sure I'd mess about with a forty year old Hadcock, but that's just me, I'd also be dubious about buying a 160 on eBay unless the seller had the original substantial packaging, a lot can be damaged in shipping.

 

Had the original packaging but suppose your right about the tonearm.

 

It was last serviced 2 years ago.

 

Well if the seller was telling the truth and it was serviced by someone properly qualified and it was properly packed it's either the set up, you can find the manual on Vinyl Engine if you want to go through the set up, or it's the arm, I'm guessing it's a 228, I'm not very familiar with them, but it's definitely something that can be bettered possibly by your basic Rega so that may be your weak spot. I've heard 160s sounding pretty mediocre and also sounding excellent, it does take some knowledge, effort and a decent arm to get the latter, but they are all capable of sounding excellent I'm sure you will be able to improve the sound of yours greatly.

 

Aside from ensuring the 160 is actually set up correctly and producing a nice even up/down bounce, I would not make any conclusions based on that tonearm. Actually you can get armboards for the 160 that will allow you to use your Rega arm on it. This might be worth trying as a more apples to apples comparison.

Personally I like SME tonearms on vintage Thorens decks, but many people put Rega and Jelco arms on them too.

 

New Thorens TTs are made in Taiwan. Eg. TD-1600. For half the price you can buy a high quality restored TD-160 from Switzerland but they don't ship turntables, only local delivery.

 

Not sure what that has to do with this thread, but the new Thorens TD 1600 table looks pretty well engineered, and has been very well reviewed.

 

Because people here are talking about TD-160.

TD-1600 is the new, modernized TD-160 (XLR outputs, speed adjustments and stuff). So is true what people say, the TD-160 is an indestructible turntable. If I buy a TD-160, I would buy a well-restored model from a reliable person. Not from a stranger on eBay.

 

Ive heard the 3009s are the bees knees. They’re 40 years old too aren’t they?

 

Yes, I’ve used a protractor. It’s a lot of work to change the arms round. I just wanted it to work properly straight out the box but guess that’s just wishful thinking.

 

I wasn't talking about changing arms in my post, I just meant listen to both tables with the same cartridge to remove that difference. Or is that what you meant by changing arms around? If so, I agree, changing the cartridge from one arm to the other isn't trivial either.

My main point was just to confirm with you that the Hadcock arm is setup correctly on the Thorens since it is a different mounting distance from the stock arm specification. It is only about 3-4mm different, so maybe didn't require much of a mount change. Were you already familiar with the sound of the Nagaoka and Goldring cartridges, or did you just get those, or did they come with the table?

The tables are gonna sound different, that's a given, and maybe it takes some getting used to with the Thorens. Or maybe something is wrong with it, can you make a short recording of each to show us the differences you hear?

 

I see. Yes I’ve tried the same cartridge on both tables. Whatever cartridge I try on the thorens sounds the same which is telling me it’s the tonearm.

the hadcock arm on the thorens was set up professionally by a company.

The thorens came with the goldring and I had the nagaoka already.

Thinking I’m going to have to return it.

 

The tonearm might have crappy cables inside, unless you want to go through a lot of trouble to make that TT sound right if you can still get your money back sounds like your best option.

 

There are different types of 3009, the arm was in production for a very long time and was changed over the years, some are much older than 40, you need to choose the best version for your intended cart, but there are plenty of people who can service and rewire them, Audio Origami being one, it would have been the top end and also a very popular option for a 160 when new, don't forget that a lot of Rega RB300s are 30+ years old now, age isn't the issue, misuse and abuse are.

 

The Hadcock was a PITA to set up 45 years ago, I doubt it's any easier now.

 

Thorens 160B was about £80 in late 70s and 160s was about £120. So your pricing is way out. It's possible if made today would be asking £1500 due to hi-fi inflation (rather than actual). As far as the Rega comparison is concerned they would struggle to outperform the latest models but surprised R1 is as good or better, but it's not impossible even if the Thorens is performing properly. I compared my 160S with mayware arm to an 80s Planar 3 and they were quite close in performance.

 

What I don’t know is if this is just what the Thorens turntable is supposed to sound like or if there should be a massive difference... Because at the moment there’s only a slight difference and that’s edging towards the Rega.

 

The Thorens is a well engineered, if not especially well plinthed bouncy deck in the same vain as Linn and Ariston, if working properly and properly set up it should sound obviously better than the Rega, more musical, better information retrieval and generally a better grip on the music though with a somewhat different presentation from the Rega, it's easy to say that the Hadcock arm is holding the Thorens back, but I suspect that's just part of the problem and the Thorens needs a service and proper set up. You need to decide whether you want to spend more on the Thorens, at least a service and get it a better arm, maybe some of the aftermarket upgrades that will make it look prettier if not adding a huge amount to sound quality, or do you want to cut your losses. When it comes to decks the Rega is plug and play, minimal set up and it doesn't particularly mind where you place it, the Thorens requires more effort and proper isolation, if you like the simplicity of the Rega approach, get a better Rega or perhaps a Technics, if you want to learn about setting decks up, put some effort in and maybe do a little DIY then stick with the Thorens, ditch the Hadcock, buy a Rega arm and with some work you will have a deck that can rival most things under £1000. I'm not a big fan of the 160 or low end Regas come to that, but I have owned and heard many of each all other things being equal the Thorens should always come out on top, hence I'm convinced yours is not right.

 

I’m thinking of just cutting my losses at this point. I originally spent £250 on a TD-160 only to find it had major RPM issues that couldn’t be fixed with a replacement belt not to mention cosmetic issues. When it worked it blew my Rega away though.

I was willing to pay more on this because it had been looked after meticulously but I’ve been through a huge stack of records and compared them and they barely sound any different.

Would it be covered under eBay money back guarantee?