Rega Planar 1 sounds better than Thorens TD 160B mark ii

Ebay always side with the buyer so if you haven't had it too long I'm sure you could contrive to get your money back and Paypal will even pay your return postage, morally if the seller described it accurately I don't think you should make a claim, but that's your choice, I guess you need to avoid TD 160s from now on though.

 

There could be different arms that make a bigger difference, controversial but I'll say it anyway, the cabling can make a massive difference. In your case if you don't want to make any modifications I think you should consider the Rega better and get rid of the Thorens. That doesn't mean that in the future you can't find a Thorens you like more than the Rega. If possible always compare before buying.

 

I’ll definitely be avoiding any eBay ones from now on that’s for sure. Well, he didn’t describe the squeaky speed lever or the knocking motor. But he did say it would outperform tables costing £1000s... yet it can’t outperform my entry level £200 Rega....

Yeah it sounds good but it doesn’t sound like it should. Didn’t know PayPal paid the postage. That’s interesting! I would’ve offered to pay it.

 

Paypal will pay return postage, not just on eBay, but you may have to have ticked that box check the site, if not eBay will probably pay, it does sound like you have a legit complaint, personally the bit about it beating decks costing thousands would have put me off

 

I bought a Thorens TD 115. What junk, tossed it out. I know it is not a TD 124, but what a disappointment.

 

Return of the turntable could be dicey provided it performs as described.. no major issues, the platter spins at the correct speed, and produces sound reasonably well. It is possible the Thorens has an issue affecting the mechanical "closed circuit" of the arm and platter. This is paramount to performance of this turntable.. there should be no compliance between the headshell and platter (no looseness in the sub-chassis) The test for this.. gently "bounce" the platter while playing a record (index finger on the top of the spindle) the stylus should not skip a groove, nor cause any interruption of sound. If the stylus skips a groove, or the music affected in any way... the turntable or arm is defective.

 

You won't get a massive difference. Apart from isolation it may not be that great and even a cheap Rega may now have better toleranced bearings. The 160 is more upgradeable as you can get aftermarket bearings and attach an external power supply / electronic speed control. Also you could improve plinth and damping to bring to 160s standard. However I would expect more upmarket Regas today to easily outperform it. If you want a massive improvement you will need to spend a lot more (new or used). Also performance will depend on arm (incl set up) and cartridge. I do know later Hadcock arms were regarded as high performers and still available from Moth Marketing.

 

No not really unless there is something actually wrong with it. If the seller is a professional business you might have additional consumer rights and be able to return. I would suggest try some modifications I suggested in my previous post or just turn it round and resell on Ebay. You may make a profit but ensure it is performing properly in terms of start up and spinning at approx correct speed. I can tell you the retro fans on this forum are talking tosh if they think old Thorens decks outperform most decent modern designs.

 

No, that is very abnormal.

 

You know he's only comparing it to a Rega 1, I know it has the 24V motor, but it's also got the lowest arm they've made, I'm not a big TD-160 fan, but working properly with a Rega or SME arm it should sound better than the Rega, just because it's 40 years old doesn't make it's design any less sound, this particular Thorens obviously has issues and a crap arm, even the OP has heard a 160 that would trounce his Rega. The way prices are going you may be correct and he may actually be able to sell it at a profit, the used deck market is insane, I'm very glad I have most of what I want.

 

I agree it's most likely arm or cartridge but a properly set up Hadcock should be better than a base Rega. With some servicing and mods plus a better arm it probably would be at least P3 standard but the latest Regas (above P1 +P2) are very much better than of old. Also bear in mind the P1 arm with Carbon is probably just a very good match. If you are looking for massive improvements
I don't think it's there apart from much better bass. Claims that 160's perform the same as decks costing 000's is ridiculous. With a really good arm and a fair bit of modification maybe you will get close but you likely will have to spend £1K + overall. OP might be better to consider something like a new Marantz TT15-S1 for a substantial upgrade on his Rega. Anyway would save a lot of grief and probably money in the long run + just forget about issues and listen to some music .

 

Some old Thorens decks (a properly set up and maintained TD160 with original arm) will just do that, yes !
If a basic sheet-of-mdf-design outperforms a TD160 there must be something very wrong with it or it must be very badly set-up.

 

@confusedcitizen can you upload a needledrop of both turntables, so we can hear it the differences between rega and thorens?

 

Exactly.

 

They should outperform a basic deck like the P1 but it all depends. Also might be something about the presentation of the P1 that OP prefers. He has not been specific in what ways the 160 sounds worse. They won't outperform something rather more up the price scale as some seem to be claiming but if you prefer a rather warm and relatively imprecise presentation with some pitch variation a standard TD 160 might be your thing.

There is a member on another forum who is ex sales and has a number of old decks incl TD 160 and he has got his to run precisely at 33 rpm with an undersize aftermarket belt, though it's too tight for the speed change to work. They need some fettling to perform as some people claim. I think if you are buying one be prepared to have to rebuild it. Sellers are usually ignorant of TTs and just offloading stuff from the attic or an inheritance. Problem is the prices being asked are too high. I would go for good cosmetics and a working motor and then be prepared to service or upgrade some parts.

 

I agree that higher end Regas will leave even a properly set up TD 160 behind, even upgrading an older Planar 3 with the 24V power supply makes a big difference, I don't think even a pimped 160 will beat a Gyro, Xerxes or similar, but it should beat most things below £1,000 new, with current new pricing I totally understand why people are looking at old decks, unfortunately you really need some luck, knowledge and skills or to buy cheap and pay for a full service/upgrade.

 

The problem is prices asked for knackered old decks that need work and knowledge are also excessive. If this was £100 and you spent £300 doing it up the resulting performance is a very good deal. If you go anywhere near to £1K getting it sounding really nice you are better off buying new.

 

I'd like to hear a £1000 new deck that could outperform my 40 year old Thorens Td160.

Made by Unicorn Industries by any chance?

 

Many people would prefer a Technics GR, it comes with arm and has been as low as £1,000, or you could get a Michell Technodec with Rega arm for £1,000 or a Rega Planar 6 with Neo power supply, then there are many decks I'm not familiar with such as the Pro-ject X2 or Marantz TT15S1 which I've seen advertised for just over £1,000 new, plenty of new choices that would outperform 99% of TD160s out there.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree, I fear.

A well sorted, well cared for TD160, mated with an SME arm is a thing of beauty.

But each to their own.

 

Vintage deck delusion. Typical forum hype. I've owned a top example of a TD 160 and quite a few decks since. It's a nice deck in mint condition but there have been improvements due to better manufacturing tolerances. They are about 1K deck level if working to original spec, depending on arm. Maybe a bit more with money spent on bearing and speed control. Then I wouldn't rate a non upgraded Linn of similar vintage which cost quite a bit more. I think any £1K DD would show them lacking in several areas. Another thing they are a pain with footfall on wooden floors.

 

Had wooden floors for years.

It simply isn't an issue!

I'll leave you to your delusions.

DD, oh, no, but thanks.......

 

I'm glad your happy with your TD 160 but there is better out there. The OP was expecting Michell Orbe level performance from a 40 yr old £250 deck I think. Have you seriously listened to anything else or owned another deck in the last 40 years? If you are happy with what you have fine. The 160 is fine and if you are happy with the sound stick with it especially for what it likely cost all those years ago. It's still one of the better vintage decks. Problem is Ebay examples mostly aren't up to much without a lot of effort.

 

And just how much does a mint fully serviced SME 3009 cost these days? I've owned and sold many TD 160s, the mechanical quality is lovely, the plinths leave room for improvement and the design is a bit old in the tooth, even Linn have made many improvements, but yes a mint one with a SME arm does look very nice and doesn't sound bad, but it isn't the pinnacle of sound quality, I'd suggest getting out and hearing what a higher end Rega, a Michell Orbe or other well regarded modern deck can do you may be shocked by how off the pace the Thorens is now, though admittedly the new decks come at a price.