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releases prior to Small Faces deluxe sets

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by toptentwist, Oct 24, 2014.

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  1. toptentwist

    toptentwist Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I recently started a deep dive into the back catalog of the Small Faces.

    It seems like a band that was around for a short time, and didn't record too many albums *should* have a simple discography - but it's quickly becoming apparent that couldn't be farther from the truth.

    Here's what I have so far:

    Small Faces (BBC Sessions)
    Small Faxes (Immediate Album Collection)


    The BBC album doesn't seem confusing.

    The "Immediate Album Collection" is a nice little box with basically three albums in it - all nicely packaged.
    - The self-titled "Small Faces" album that came out on the Immediate label
    - Ogden's... (nice packaging inside this box)
    - The Autumn Stone

    I held off on getting the two Decca era albums - until I could do more research.

    Right or wrong, I recently ordered the following from Amazon:

    - the 2012 "deluxe" set for the debut (self titled) album on Decca,
    - the 2012 "deluxe" set for the follow-up "spoiler" album on Decca ("In the Beginning")
    - the 35th anniversary edition of the "self-titled" Immediate album (opting not to get the
    2012 deluxe set for this one (skipped the 2012 "deluxe" set here)

    Yeah... I've already bought the Immediate self-titled album twice - LOL

    The debut Decca album arrived yesterday... when I went to rip it into my Itunes library, I attempted
    to break it up into individual parts... Disc 1 in the 2012 deluxe set was pretty simple. Disc 2 seemed
    more difficult.

    I'm trying to basically take each track and add original artwork for that specific version.

    I think the "electronically rechanneled stereo" tracks came from a 1981 compilation album entitled "Sha La La La Lee"... I'm not sure about the true stereo version of "Sha La La La Lee".. I'm guessing it's also on the same 1981 album with the fake stereo - but I'm curious if it showed up somewhere else with the same true stereo mix (the liner notes in the 2012 set seem to suggest it was released in 1966).

    Has anyone tried to put together precise information about the first appearance for each of the bonus tracks on the 2012 Deluxe sets ?

    I realize that's a difficult task - but I can't be the first one to attempt it...
     
    Hep Alien likes this.
  2. toptentwist

    toptentwist Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    These are my comments/questions for the Decca self titled album two disc set. I think I read something
    about how this set has ZERO previously unreleased tracks (maybe some new to compact disc, but nothing
    completely unissued)

    Disc 1 (tracks 1 thru 12) : original Decca mono LP

    Disc 1 (tracks 13 thru 16) : various Decca UK 45s


    Disc 2 is where it gets more difficult:

    Track 1 : Come On Children (alt mono) (no clue where this version first showed up)
    Track 2 : Shake (alt mono) (seems to be from 2006 CD release - but curious if it was somwhere before that)
    Track 3 : You Better Believe it (alt mono) - same comment as Track 2
    Track 4 : It's Too Late (fake stereo) seems to be from 1981 "Sha La La La Lee" compilation LP
    Track 5 : Sorry She's Mine (fake stereo) same comment as Track 4
    Track 6 : Own Up Time (alt mono) same comment as Track 2
    Track 7 : E Too D (alt mono) - my guess is first release was on 1996 CD on Deram, but curious if was on vinyl before 1996 (liner notes for Deluxe claim 2009 - but thinking thats the mastering date)
    Track 8 : I've Got Mine (fake stereo) - same comment as Track 4
    Track 9 : Grow Your Own (fake stereo) - same comment as Track 4
    Track 10 : Sha la la la Lee (TRUE stereo) - real curious where this first appeared !!!
    Track 11 : Don't Stop What You're Doing - saw a pretty confident assertion on 45cat.com this is from French EP
    Track 12 : Patterns (fake stereo) - same comment as Track 4
    Track 13 : What's A Matter Baby - same thing I saw for Track 11, seemed to rule this out as French EP (but no clear idea where this was first released)
    Track 14 : Watcha Gonna Do About It - same comment as Track 13 and Track 2


    Same comments I saw about 1966 French EP on 45cat.com were very clear that "Come On Children" is unique on that EP, but it's NOT on the deluxe set (even if the intent was to include the version from that 1966 French EP)

    The comments there - from someone named Wurzelsepp were as follows:

    "Just to set this finally straight as there's been much confusion about the so-called "French EP-Versions" by the Small Faces, partially caused by a piece in Record Collector #197 (Jan 1996) and CD liners (844 634-2), both are wrong!

    This one plays the UK-45 takes of both "Whatcha Gonna Do About It" (NOT the one with the feedback intro) and "What's A Matter Baby".
    "Don´t Stop What You´re Doing" is different to the LP take. This one has Jimmy Winston on lead vocals instead of Steve M. "Come On Children" is also a totally different version, probably from an earlier session than the LP take. Unfortunately the latter has escaped all official reissues so far (incl. the recent deluxe sets!)."
     
    Hep Alien likes this.
  3. toptentwist

    toptentwist Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Houston, TX
  4. gazebo

    gazebo Active Member

    There were several compilations of the Small Faces Decca material released in the early 1970s on minor UK labels which were advertised as stereo when many of the tracks were only mixed in mono. So presumably they used fake stereo tracks. I don't know exactly what was on them because I didn't buy them - the first compilation I bought was the 1976 Decca compilation Rock Roots which featured the 8 Decca A&B sides in mono - as compiler Alan Fitter posted in this SH forum thread, he avoided the previously issued fake stereo mixes where ever possible. An example of one of these compilations from discogs is shown below.

    If the true stereo Sha-La-La-La-Lee was released in 1966, it could have been this German compilation and if it was available then it would almost certainly used on the stereo version of the 1967 Decca UK compilation the World Of Hits

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
  5. Rhett

    Rhett Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cool City
    It's a daunting task for sure - I thought about attempting this but the research and all the discs a person would have to buy - not to mention the vinyl would be mind numbing - I fear.
     
  6. Rhett

    Rhett Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cool City
    What about this disc - is there anything exclusive to this compilation?

    [​IMG]
     
  7. toptentwist

    toptentwist Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I'm spoiled because many of my Motown CDs specifically state where something was first released.

    I think I've taken the liner notes with the 2012 Decca self titled album about as far as I can go.

    The 1981 compilation pointed to my 2012 liner notes seems very plausible... it's fairly well done "fake stereo" - and the track times line up pretty well with the photo I was looking at of the LP label.

    But in the spots where the 2012 collection has notes that point towards a 2006 CD release, I was hoping that maybe someone with that 2006 CD could add something to the discussion. Basically do THOSE 2006 those liner notes point backward at anything (or claim "previously unreleased" for some of the tracks).

    There's some very odd "stereo" that's on the Autumn Stone disc in the three disc "Immediate Album Collection" box. Sounds like mono - where someone suddenly played with the balance in the middle of a mono to stereo transfer - just to kind of give the illusion of stereo.
    But I'm guessing that might be how Autumn Stone always sounded - LOL

    I'm hoping that some of the alternate mono mixes are known...

    I have no desire to go back and seek out variations on fake stereo.
     
  8. toptentwist

    toptentwist Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I did a lot of digging today - concerning the 2012 (two disc) Deluxe Edition of the debut self titled "Small Faces" album on the Decca album.

    I'm hampered by not owning the original releases - but it seems that there is a fairly obvious "paper trail" that points to the most likely source of each "bonus track".

    The 2012 Deluxe Edition set seems to have a lot in common with the 2006 "40th Anniversary Set" - and the 1996 release on the Deram label. The difference is the number of bonus tracks keeps growing every time - LOL

    It seems like that 1996 release tried to attribute the source of all (?) of its bonus tracks to various French EPs.
    That information seems to be accurate in places, and inaccurate in others. But I can't really say what mistakes
    that set may have made in its liner notes, since I don't own the release. The set in its entirety does appear
    to be for sale today on Itunes.

    Without owning the vinyl, it seemed like my best friend was youtube - because thats a place where people
    sometimes go and PLAY old vinyl - to either brag - or perhaps just to demonstrate to others what is
    unique.

    Somewhere along the way, I saw a mention by someone on youtube about a specific version being found
    on a 1970s compilation album. I believe the album they were referring to is this.

    http://www.discogs.com/Small-Faces-Small-Faces/release/2181775

    The fact that it was a FRENCH LP is what caught my eye.

    Looking purely at track times, I believe this French LP has the first appearance
    for four of the bonus tracks on Disc 2 of the 2012 Deluxe edition.

    Track 3 : You Better Believe it
    Track 6 : "Own Up Time" (extended version)
    Track 13 : What's A Matter Baby
    Track 14 : Whatcha Gonna Do About It

    Track 14 is radically different from what came before it... with a guitar feedback intro
    and no prominent keyboard part.

    The only track I could determine came from a French EP was Track 11 on Disc 2 of the Deluxe set.
    An alternate version of "Don't Stop What You're Doing" - which features Jimmy Winston on vocals,
    not Steve Marriot.

    There are three tracks that are still a mystery to me.

    Track 1 : Come on Children... those who own the French EP have
    stated that the version on the EP has never been released on CD.

    I believe this youtube link has the actual French EP.



    Listening to thr 2012 CD compared with the youtube posting, I noticed
    that the BEGINNING of the song is different on youtube - with the lead
    vocal coming in at a different point in the song. The song also seems to
    end slightly earlier.

    I think what happened was the 1996 CD attempted to give us the French EP
    version but gave us a different take. I believe its the same take on
    the 1996, 2006, and 2012 compact discs - but I'm mostly guessing about that.

    One thing that's clear is the alternate version on the Disc 2 of the 2012
    deluxe edition is much shorter than the version on Disc 1 of the same 2012 set.


    Track 2 : Shake (alt mono)... the liner notes for the 2012 Deluxe CD provide
    a 2006 date for this take and seem to suggest that it's the same thing that's a bonus
    on the "40th anniversary CD". That CD seems to be derived from the 1996
    Deram CD - which called this a "French EP version". Problem is those who
    own the French EP dispute this claim - saying that the French EP is identical
    to the mono LP version. What I find odd is the difference in the track
    times are reported as follows

    1996
    LP version (2:53) "EP version" (2:48)

    2006
    LP version (2:53) "EP version" (2:48)

    2012
    LP version (2:54) "EP version" (2:54)

    Listening, the takes are VERY close but I was able to determine that the lead
    vocal improvs are different. Compare the two tracks about 40 seconds in.
    On disc 2 of the 2012 deluxe edition I hear "aye aye aah ooh aah" and the
    other version on Disc 1 of the same set doesn't have the same improv.

    I'm guessing it's the same take as the 1971 French LP compilation I mentioned
    above to be why there is confusion


    Track 7 : E Too D What's known is the claim on the 1996 Deram CD about
    this coming from a French EP is false - because there never was a French EP
    with this track. My guess is since there was a Spanish EP with this track,
    that is the most likely source. It helps that there really aren't many
    other possible candidates.



    To summarize, here is what I've concluded about the 2012 deluxe set:

    Disc 1 (tracks 1 to 12) - original mono UK LP
    Disc 1 (track 13 to 16) - original mono 45 rpm records

    Disc 2, Track 1 : first released as a CD bonus track in 1996
    Disc 2, Track 2 : 1971 French compilation LP
    Disc 2, Track 3 : 1971 French compilation LP
    Disc 3, Track 4 : 1981 (UK) compilation LP
    Disc 2, Track 5 : 1981 (UK) compilation LP
    Disc 2, Track 6 : 1971 French compilation LP
    Disc 2, Track 7 : 1966 Spanish EP
    Disc 2, Track 8 : 1981 (UK) compilation LP
    Disc 2, Track 9 : 1981 (UK) compilation LP
    Disc 2, Track 10 : 1966 German "sampler" LP (with other artists)
    Disc 2, Track 11 : 1966 French EP
    Disc 2, Track 12 : 1981 (UK) compilation LP
    Disc 2, Track 13 : 1971 French compilation LP
    Disc 2, Track 14 : 1971 French compilation LP

    I realize I am suggesting an abundance of tracks that came from a unique French LP.
    But tracking down one copy of that to verify my theory should be a lot easier than
    digging up a bunch of French EPs that have been determined to not have what was
    claimed (but thankfully DO contain some unique things).
     
    zphage and Hep Alien like this.
  9. toptentwist

    toptentwist Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    My next two sets arrived... the deluxe "From The Beginning" and the "35th anniversary" version of the first album on the Immediate label.

    Looks like there was a fair amount of material on the 2012 deluxe "From The Beginning" set that was new to that release... a bunch of tracks with the vocals stripped.

    The 35th anniversary set for the first Immediate album was interesting.

    Not sure I have much to say about either release except there sure seems to be a bunch of different version of "Green Circles".

    And I'm completely confused by the CD release called "Green Circles - First Immediate album" that is basically the LP with Side 2 playing first (and Side 1 following) - plus three bonus tracks.

    I ended up entering that sequence of songs into my Itunes library - simply because I didn't want the same sequence for the mono and stereo mixes of the same LP. The mono album is in my Itunes library consistent with the old 1967 mono UK LP on immediate. Oddly, I prefer the reversed sequence. Just seems to be a different album played that way.

    Anyone remember if there was an explanation for that when the CD came out ??
     
    Hep Alien likes this.
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