REM - Green: Why you should never listen to sell out bias.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Eleventh Earl of Mar, Oct 22, 2017.

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  1. Efus

    Efus Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I think Elliot is interesting, eccentric, much like Andy Kaufman, a bit before uncomfortable awkwardness became a more mainstream comedy styling.

    That show was not good, and an REM song being attached to it added no coolness to either the show nor the band.
    But, imo, it did reinforced the position of those that thought REM sold out.

    REM didnt sell out with Green, they merely expanded their style of music to include some brighter, simpler crafted pop tunes, and to no surprise, they were quality efforts because they were a great band moving forward.

    Without a doubt, with Warners behind them, they gained a ton more fans than they lost with the first 3 Warner releases of their new era.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
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  2. mbrownp1

    mbrownp1 Forum Resident

    Get A Life
    1. 77% on Rotten Tomatoes.
    2. 8.2/10 IMDB reviews.
    3. A- A/V Club review.
    4. 82% rating on Google reviews.
    Either you're talking out of your a55 or you have no taste. Either way speaking in absolutes is a crappy way to live.
     
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  3. Chuckorama

    Chuckorama Forum Resident

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    Not Here
    I find this odd. Unlike most bands, R.E.M enjoyed total creative control. Obviously they liked Shiny Happy People enough to a) write it...b) put it on the album....c) make it the lead off track for side 2... d) release it as a single...e) make a video... and f) play it live. Obviously, at some point, they liked it!

    Certainly the song is misconstrued - most people don't grasp the total cynicism lurking behind it.
     
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  4. Doctor Worm

    Doctor Worm Romans 6:23

    Location:
    Missouri
    They also included it on their career retrospective in 2011, so either they came around on it or just put on there out of obligation.
     
  5. RobCos02330

    RobCos02330 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mass
    You know, I tried finding quotes that I’d read, but I’m just not finding them. So I’m going to say I’m wrong on this one. If I have to dig deep for quotes, then they couldn’t have meant it even if someone had said it. Essentially any quote I found said maybe it wasn’t their finest hour but they’re glad they wrote the song. So there you go. :righton:
     
  6. Chuckorama

    Chuckorama Forum Resident

    Location:
    Not Here
    I don't doubt you! They probably did say negative things about SHP after the fact... possibly because the masses embraced the song at face value and totally missed the ironic/subversive intent behind it. My point was just that nobody forced the song on them!
     
  7. Canadacrowe

    Canadacrowe Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    They (or Stipe) were pretty good at poking fun at their own success -- his intro to Stand by about halfway through the Green tour was hilariously self-mocking.
     
  8. BluesOvertookMe

    BluesOvertookMe Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX, USA
    Great song, I don’t care what anyone says.
     
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  9. Fastnbulbous

    Fastnbulbous Doubleplus Ungood

    Location:
    Washington DC USA
    Green wasn't a sell-out per se, it's just a mediocre album. Compared with their early albums it's kinda bad. It's probably considered a sell-out since the two songs most people recognize are awful. IMO they ran out of ideas midway through Document.
     
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  10. ghoulsurgery

    ghoulsurgery House Ghost

    Location:
    New Jersey
    IMO “selling out” has more to do with an artist changing to fit trends, not the label they’re on. And REM definitely never chased trends at any point.
     
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  11. Aphoristical

    Aphoristical Aphoristic Album Reviews

    I think they just had a less compelling creative period in the late 1980s and early 1990s - second side of Document, Green, and Out Of Time are disappointing next to the first four albums. Automatic, New Adventures, and to a lesser extent, Up, are much better.
     
  12. J_D__

    J_D__ Senior Member

    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    Pageant overrated??? REM continued to play songs from it live until the end of their career. Fall on Me may be their best song ever. Michael thinks so.
     
  13. ModernDayWarrior

    ModernDayWarrior Senior Member

    On the Stand vs. Shiny Happy People, I’m more in the Stand camp. It’s think it’s a nice pop song. I could never stomach Shiny Happy People though but to each their own.

    As a matter of fact, I recently forwarded my 12 year old daughter the Stand video on YouTube and she liked the song very much. So if that’s more of a gateway to get her into rock, then mission accomplished.
     
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  14. ModernDayWarrior

    ModernDayWarrior Senior Member

    I would tend to agree with you, although Monster could have been a bit of a stab at grunge, but I really enjoyed that album and that was the first time I saw them on tour.
    Hell, if they wanted to sell out during the Green era, they could have went glam metal LoL
     
  15. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    It's probably been mentioned upthread, but I remember at the time the band said GREEN was an album of music that could be played in the larger venues they were now commanding. In other words, it was their version of arena rock.

    Of course, they turned around and issued OUT OF TIME, which was chockablock with hard to replicate studio intricacies, like guest vocalists, strings, acoustic instruments . . .
     
  16. Chuckorama

    Chuckorama Forum Resident

    Location:
    Not Here
    How about grunge circa 1994 ? I agree that their original sound had influences but was entirely their own. Unfortunately, by Monster, a lot of that distinctiveness had been bleached out.
     
  17. ghoulsurgery

    ghoulsurgery House Ghost

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Monster had dirty guitars but that’s about all it had in common with grunge. Monster was a creepy, glammy, sexualized collection of character studies. It wasn’t introspective or angsty at all. It’s aged really well because it didn’t cling too tightly to the era.
     
  18. Sandorelli

    Sandorelli Forum Resident

    Location:
    Us
    They also did the “rock band goes electronic experimental” thing that everyone did in the late 90s.
     
  19. searing75

    searing75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Western NY
    Green is great!
     
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  20. vinylontubes

    vinylontubes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Katy, TX
    Green was not good. I didn't like when it came out. Still don't like it. Selling out wasn't really a big issue. And I've never had a bias toward REM signing to WB. It was fine. They needed WB to expand beyond what IRS could provide. They needed the financing to support the Green tour where they started headlining major venues. The tour was highly successful. While I don't think their WB catalog stands up to what they did at IRS, it wasn't a huge step down. I think the albums from the '90s are fine. I like them a lot better than Green. And I only think the band's ability to produce great music didn't fall off until Bill Berry left at the end of the decade.
     
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  21. Brewmeister

    Brewmeister Forum Resident

    Location:
    Baltimore
    I was in High School when Green came out and I started hearing the "sell-out" thing from my friends and at the same time people who previously didn't much listen to "rock" or guitar based stuff but rather things like Michael Jackson started listening to REM. I just didn't see the supposed "selling out"
    To me Document and Green kind of seem linked like volume 1 and volume 2. Similar to the way I view Rubber Soul and Revolver.
    I don't think REM sold out, I just think the rest of the world (outside of college kids or the art class high school kids who wear black) were finally ready for them.
    Right around this time. a lot music that had been labeled "weird" the "popular kids" just a year or two before was slowly becoming popular to the masses. I'm thinking, B-52's, 10,000 Maniacs, They Might be Giants and to a lesser degree The Cure.
     
  22. macdaddysinfo

    macdaddysinfo Forum Resident

    been reading the thread since it began - figured I would post...

    imo, green and document were alright, and I agree they seemed like part 1 and part 2. I also remember the bit about the music on green being more conducive to venues they were playing. However, those albums were still disappointing to me. I remember getting the fables lp, and it was strange and beautiful, and I couldn't listen to it enough. but it was different from what I expected after reckoning. then I got life's rich pageant. and it was different than fables, and awesome, too, in its own right. then document came out, and I was excited to listen, but it fell flat with me - some good songs, but just not the same magic to me. green I actually liked a bit more than document: it was a departure (and maybe the direction they took resonated with my tastes more), but it didn't have me humming all day, waiting to listen again when I got home from school. dead letter office still stands as one of the best b-sides collections I have heard. I can definitely draw a line in the sand after the irs switch. losing my religion chafes me hard, and it always has. and everybody hurts is like fingernails on a chalkboard. I enjoy monster - but it is loud and personal and different. I haven't heard anything much I liked from them since. ymmv.

    this takes nothing away from their run on irs - which is right up there with other great bands. u2 had that run from fire through achtung, and then fell off before losing me at pop. the police had a helluva run, and quit before the wheels could fall of the wagon.

    funny you mention the b52s, because they are another band that had some very interesting and original stuff, and then came love shack. but those first few albums were sweet.
     
  23. Ghost of Ziggy

    Ghost of Ziggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hell
    Shiny Happy People was what got me into R.E.M. so I was stunned when I heard the band openly trashing it, especially as it featured Kate Pearson. But whatever.
     
  24. I listen to what I like and let others worry about whether or not the band sold out.
     
  25. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award

    Location:
    NJ USA
    +1

    And much of this "they sold out" sentiment runs counter to the ones who complain that "artists don't make enough money". It's like they don't realize this is a business, that the goal is to create a collection of songs each year that have appeal to a wide audience otherwise you lose that audience. "Selling out" is the entire point of pop music. Fans may elevate it to 'art' if they like, but that's not what REM was trying to do. They were trying to make a living before their flame burned out, no different than any other pop group in the history of recorded music.
     
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