Removing LAST vinyl preservative

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Musical Maxis, Oct 28, 2018.

  1. Musical Maxis

    Musical Maxis Is out there.......somewhere? Thread Starter

    Location:
    WVa
    Has anyone here used this stuff LAST Record Preservative – 2 Oz. - The Last Factory on LPs and had any luck with removing it with Tergitol or a surfactant? Long story short I received a NM graded LP today of Pac-Man Fever (yes I know, and don't ask) from a seller on Discogs. He failed to mention that it previously was treated with this stuff and it also has two white stickers that say LAST on each label. I can remove the stickers no problem but I've never used or even heard of this stuff till now.
     
    hi_watt likes this.
  2. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead SLEAZY SOUTHAMERICAN CAVEMAN

    Play the record. LAST is snake oil. Upon treating the record with it, it leaves an oily residue that kills the upper treble, but it evaporates completely with time leaving no residue behind. For further peace of mind, you can always trigger the return policy. Failure to warn you about the LAST treatment is a clear violation. OAH most people on this forum use and swear by LAST, so YMMV.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  3. googlymoogly

    googlymoogly Forum Resident

    I truly have no idea if Last Preservative works, but I will say this: when I find a used record I'm interested in and those "Last" stickers are on it, I'll usually buy it - if nothing else, it indicates that the previous owner cared about the LP, so it will likely be in good shape. The brand's ad copy indicates that the stuff bonds to the topmost layer of the vinyl, and if that's really true, the stuff is there for good. On the other hand, I've never listened to an LP that was supposedly treated with Last that seems to have suffered from surface damage, so it doesn't seem to have a negative effect.
     
  4. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I use it. Have many records treated with it. No discernible sound signature, other than smoother sailing of stylus over vinyl. No issues at all - have no fear.
     
  5. Eigenvector

    Eigenvector Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southeast PA
    Same here! I’ve found that if someone went to the trouble to treat their records with LAST, they also took good care of them. I’ve never been let down when buying an LP with a LAST sticker on it!
     
    The FRiNgE, clhboa, hi_watt and 3 others like this.
  6. Musical Maxis

    Musical Maxis Is out there.......somewhere? Thread Starter

    Location:
    WVa
    It does seem to look a bit oily or more shiny now since it was mentioned. I have never ever ran across a record until now that had this stuff on it. I wonder if isopropyl will remove it? I really hate the thought of either being on my LP but if it cleans the stuff off, I can always use tergitol and a rinse afterwards I guess...
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  7. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    I've never heard any audible artifacts from LAST, nor encountered any physical residue after application.

    I've tried a lot of record treatment products, mostly those designed to address the issue of stylus-groove friction that involve coating records with various substances, and I've found many of them leave problematic residue. Not so with LAST in my experience, which I think is a PFPE lubricant in a carrier.

    The manufacturer claims reduced surface wear and IIRC a reduction in IMD with LAST, maybe because of improved tracking? I don't if there have ever been any independent tests of that, but I've certainly never heard highs killed off or encountered oily residue either. If there's visible oily residue from Last it much have been dramatically over applied. (I have had problems with other lubricant products like GroOove-Lube, which is a product I'd suggest avoiding.)

    As to Last's theoretical efficacy, certainly vinyl record surfaces are not smooth, highly polished affairs and imperfections in the surfaces create playback noise and stylus wear, plus there's stylus-groove friction which actually increases the more squeaky clean we get our records.

    If a substance can bond to the surface and present a smoother, slipperier surface to the stylus without being thick enough to alter groove wall modulations or without wearing off instantly from friction or without shedding, it might well have some positive effect on better tracking (and therefore lower distortion) and better noise performance and maybe lower wear.

    I'll have to leave it to the chemists and materials engineers we have hear to explain whether or not Last can and does do what it claims, but the info about the material is in the company's patent application.

    Regardless I'd be surprised if it's left behind something you have to wash off in order to play the record cleanly without problems. And you may actually find that something that makes LP surfaces smoother and slipperier is a good thing.
     
    The FRiNgE, TheVU, atariguy39 and 3 others like this.
  8. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm

    Don´t try to remove it. Chances are You have a better record with it on.
     
  9. Rushton

    Rushton Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    I used LAST for a while many years ago. I never heard a negative sonic signature from it other than the high frequencies being softened. And that could have been due to the lubrication LAST claims to provide. I stopped using it as part of my record cleaning regimen and never thought about it again.

    As suggested by others, if you don't hear a residue when playing these records, don't worry about it. LAST has not harmed any of my records after over 20+ years since I applied any.
     
    atariguy39 likes this.
  10. Tartifless

    Tartifless Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    Chances are you'll do more damage than good trying to remove it, and surely without result.
    From my understanding LAST has an effect on the chemical structure of the vinyl, is so it can't be removed at all.

    But as others have said. The LAST sticker is a sign that previous owner cared for his records, plus if the product works as advertised it should be less weared by repeated plays.
     
  11. ayrehead

    ayrehead It was like that when I found it...

    Location:
    Germantown, Tn
    Most of the people who don't like GoOove Lube are putting way too much on. I've been using it for a few years now with no issues. It is easily removed by any record cleaner if you don't like it. All my treated records sound way better.
     
    atariguy39 likes this.
  12. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    I've never found a way to apply it in sufficiently small quantities or sufficiently evenly.
     
  13. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    This stuff does NOT coat your vinyl. If the marketing is to be believed, it literally soaks into the groves. And it is 100% dry within about 30 seconds of application. And I know from experience that it leaves no apparent residue which I one detect on the surface.

    Why you would want to take it off I have no clue. This is a sure sign of a record which was owned by somebody who really cared about keeping his vinyl in top condition.

    Some believe last to be snake oil. But I have applied it to a number of my favorite records. And while I can't scientifically prove that it worked, I can say anecdotally that these records have seemed to take an abnormally high amount of play without any noticeable sonic degradation.

    Applying IPA is a pretty extreme measure IMO, and it can only make things worse. You should consider yourself lucky to have found a lasted record IMO, not be trying to get rid of it.
     
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  14. Grant

    Grant A Musical Free-Spirit

    Location:
    Arizona
    The stuff is great. I preserved a lot of my records with it back in the early 80s and they play better than the untreated ones do.
     
    atariguy39, uzn007 and Musical Maxis like this.
  15. Abbagold

    Abbagold Working class hero

    Location:
    World
    So...Pac-Man Fever?
     
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  16. Musical Maxis

    Musical Maxis Is out there.......somewhere? Thread Starter

    Location:
    WVa
    I'll let it go but removed those stickers.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  17. 5-String

    5-String Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    I don't know if what some forum members mentioned previously, that Last has its sonic signature, which is a softening of the high frequencies is true.

    But I would be horrified to use a product that changes the structure of the vinyl at the molecular level and that's why I never buy any used records with the Last sticker.
     
  18. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    ?```````

    'Horrified' :) If it lowers the friction without any known problems, this is a really good thing. Imagine if we could play a record with no friction.
     
    The FRiNgE, atariguy39 and chervokas like this.
  19. 5-String

    5-String Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Yes, but there are known problems according to some forum members as they mentioned in this thread. Olive oil also lowers the friction, would you use this on your records? :)
     
  20. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    I haven´t seen anyone mention any problems. No I wouldn´t use anything that will leave a residue on the record surface, that includes olive oil.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  21. Roycer

    Roycer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wyoming
    I always wondered what the LAST sticker on album covers meant...This thread helps me understand.Been several years since I have bought any like this though.Thank You
     
    Mugrug12 likes this.
  22. 5-String

    5-String Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Forum members in this thread (The Pinhead and Rushton) mentioned a softening of highs. I have read similar complaints on audiogon and other audio forums. I have no personal experience with the product, but I am very suspicious and I don't feel comfortable using it or buying any records that Last has been applied on.
     
  23. VinylSoul

    VinylSoul Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lake Erie
    Last is not a lubricant. It's purpose is to keep the record surface from disintegrating from the shockwave made by the stylus playing the record. Last penetrates the vinyl surface only and your not going to remove it by washing the record. Great product has gotten pricey though.
     
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  24. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    Well, I've used Last and I've never heard a softening of the highs, nor experienced any problems with residue. I do suspect that a lot of times people get accustomed to high frequency hash -- from mistracking, from mechanical and acoustic breakthrough, from electrical noise -- and when you take it away, the suddenly feel like they've lost high frequency excitement. But it's often a reduction in HF or IM distortion or noise. Anyway, my experience with Last is that there's no negative sonic or physical consequences.
     
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  25. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    I´m not really trying in pushing Last, I know too little about it. But from so many users through the years it would seem like a safe bet.

    I have tested other compounds to lower friction, some didn´t work that good, some worked splendidly. With Siloxane I managed to reduce the friction to more than half. It was really good, the sound improved and distortion was reduced; the sound was clearer and softer. But I don´t use it normally, it was a test and it worked fine. The problem is the application isn´t straight forward, as we only want some molecule layers that won´t interfere with the needle. Too much and there will be a problem with build up.
     

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