Removing LAST vinyl preservative

I have applied Last record preservative to many hundreds of LPs after cleaning, both new and used. I've used it since the late 70s or early 80s, whenever I first learned of it. I'm listening at the moment to a box of Mozart LPs I rescued from a thrift store last weekend. Cleaned on my Nitty Gritty machine, with Last as the finishing step. Immaculate performances in immaculate sound.

I agree, also, with those who have observed that anyone who has applied Last (as evidenced by the presence of the sticker) has probably taken very good care of their records.

I was told last week, though, by a vinyl guru I know well and trust, that it should be used only on new records, not used ones like we find in thrifts and flea markets. Have any of you heard this opinion? I don't know the reasoning behind it, but plan to ask him for details this weekend. In the meantime, I can only observe that my records seem to remain unchanged even after decades of playing them, and never need subsequent cleaning.

BTW, after first cleaning a record and applying Last preservative, I put a Last sticker on the upper right of the label on Side 1. Of course, I always use a new inner sleeve if the record was bought used. That sticker tells me, even years later, that the record was cleaned.

Funny how we all develop these little systems.

 

LAST Record "preserver" is GARBAGE. Do not put any chemicals or liquids other than if you are cleaning your vinyl and even cleaning be very careful.

LAST ALWAYS FAILS - I have a bunch of LAST preserved records I am slowly 'de-lasting' , all "LAST PRESERVED" over a few decades . When using a stylus other than a Spherical / Conical - when you use Line Contact, Shibata, Hyper Elliptical - it PEELS UP THE LAST AND GUMS UP YOUR STYLUS WITH WHITE CRYSTALLINE RAILS THAT LOOK LIKE FIBERGLASS - That will be somewhat friction bad for your precious diamond stylus. AVOID ! It's a real pain and if you play a LAST record vs a NUDE record - you will notice and be able to see with audio tools like a Spectrum analysis meter - that your high end will be MUFFLED with LAST. This stuff is the true definition of snake oil ! AVOID ! I will be posting this in Steve Hoffman forum as well with photos of what LAST GLASS looks like.

 

I have dozens of lasted records. I've never, ever seen anything remotely like this. Did you apply last to these records yourself, or did you acquire these elsewhere?

 

I've long been suspicious of this stuff. What exactly are we looking at there? A stylus or record cleaning brush? Also, how are you "de-lasting" the LAST preserved records?

 

LAST has to be one of the most polarizing topics in audio! It generates some of the most hot and cold replies than anything.

My question is simple --- WHY? I have owned vinyl for 45 years, and really don't understand how someone gets convinced they first off need the stuff, then second off applies it to their cherished vinyl.

But I am open to learning and having my mind changed.

 

Agreed. I don't care one way or the other. The LPs I treated with it in the 80s are still fine. If they didn't have the sticker on the label I would have forgotten that they were treated. ...But that's kind of your point, right? They aren't any more/less worn than the records I've had from that time period that weren't treated, so what's the point? (And what's the point in being upset over the ones I did treat?)

I was actually a little surprised that LAST was still a product after all this time.

 

That pic makes it seem like the LAST was applied a little heavy.

But I don't know.

 

I think many are wondering exactly the entirety of what we are seeing in that picture........... I am not ready to say that it's the sole bi-product of ill-applied LAST, I just don't know either. I will say as an owner of 4500 LP's and gone through many from record stores, thrifts, collections I bought that some had LAST applied --- that I cannot offer a pic or experience to the level of what the picture above shows.

I am not a believer in LAST, but the experience from the poster with the pic above is sure on the extreme end if it is 100% LAST caused..........

 

I just wanna to add my experience with it. I applied it following the directives by the letter after cleaning and drying LPs with a RCM. I didn't hear an audio difference but most of the records are still new. Although I am picking up similliar white fiberglass like residue on the records that I treated. When I bought the product I was told a light white residue may happen on the first spin and you just have to brush it off, but it definatly still happens after consecutive spins. Sometimes the white stuff also gets intertwined around the stylus and cantilever and can be hard to remove with the brush. Fortunatly, Zerodust can help in those situations. As fequazoidiac mentionned, I do use an elliptical stylus.

So in the end, I tried it, but I wouldn't reccomend it. Maybe the bottle I had was expired when I purchased it, there is no date on the bottle.

 

I wouldn't want that stuff anywhere near my cartridges or my records. sounds like a nightmare.

 

The white stuff is not Last residue.

I talked with a guy at Last years ago. I remember very clearly what he told me.

Last is not a friction reducer. It’s NOT a lubricant. Last reduces the shockwaves caused by the stylus. The shockwaves cause microscopic “chipping” of the vinyl.

The chips, and the damaged vinyl are what cause surface noise and loss of information over time. And the damage will cause more damage.

Last bonds on the molecular level to the vinyl. It doesn’t “sink in.”

About that white stuff (I was waiting for someone to bring that up). I’ve experienced that too. It put me off. That’s why I called them in the first place.

I was told that the white stuff is mold release. Because Last bonds on the molecular level (I don’t know exactly what that means) it releases the mold release. Well that sounded like total bunk to me. But oddly, it only happened on some records.

I was recommended another product by Last - the Power Cleaner before applying Last Preservative. But I have a Nitty Gritty RCM?! Now more baloney, I thought.

So, I caved and bought the small, expensive Power Cleaner.

The next time I used it, following with the Preservative, and the RCM (just to be anal) the white residue never appeared.

A similar product, Nitty Gritty FIRST, didn’t work. In fact, even without the Preservative applied, the Power Cleaner (and then the RCM) made an audible improvement. Less noise!

Last should be more open about the mold release issue, but it proved to be true. Depending on your stylus (fine line nude sapphire cantilever) it may not be an issue.

If you don’t play a record a LOT, it may not be worth it. But I have records that now have a little inner groove distortion that I wish had been LASTed.

If only the stuff wasn’t so damn expensive.

 

If it sound like baloney and looks like it, it probably is. Mold release would be a very thin agent applied during the production, as soon as you start playing the record anything attached to it's grooves will wear and come off. So why is it only going to come off after applying last and not during normal use?

On the other hand if you are adding to the record anything that will remain there how do you know you are applying exactly the same even amount everywhere? If it stays there in uneven amount it will affect the shape of the groove therefore the sound too.

Bonds = sticks

I would rather keep that stuff away and I wouldn't buy knowingly any records treated with it, I am surprised to hear so many people that will happily apply that kind of treatment on their valuable records.

 

This mold release idea is the myth that keeps on giving to record cleaning outfits.

 

Again, when using the Power Cleaner first the mold release doesn’t appear when playing the record. And some records don’t show mold release even without using the Power Cleaner first.

And secondly, my ears hear the difference. Not “snake oil”.

 

I am sorry if I sound ignorant but what is a mold release? Is it like a protection applied on the records?

 

If you take the time to read this RCA Patent 3,960,790 (you can download here US3960790A - Disc record and method of compounding disc record composition - Google Patents ) and its only a few pages it states:

"Four-tenths percent of montan wax ester is added to the compound to provide for good release of the record from the stamper. When the record is removed from the press without the lubricating effect of the montan wax ester in the compound, the grooves of the record are sometimes fractured, torn, and deformed by the removal. These faults in the groove produce noise on playback. Montan wax ester at the stated percentage is compatible with the resins and is homogenized into the surface of the record at the normal pressing temperature. If more than the stated amount of the montan wax ester is used, the excess amount is not absorbed into the surface of the record. Its presence results in non uniformity in the surface of the record, particularly as related to the friction between the stylus and the groove. This non-uniformity produces noise when the record is played."

In instances where too much 'lubricant' is added can it be removed - good question. There is quite a bit of 'discussion on many forums; on how simple cleaners can remove "mold release"; not so sure. The wax used is not very soft and is designed to melt/flow at the temperature and pressure of the record press.

Hope this helps

 

Thank you it does. Anyway, no matter if the white residue it mold release or LAST peeling off, it only seems to show off after applying the preservative. I never tried the Last power cleaner, I clean my records with ''l'art du son'' and sometimes with the Okki Nokki Cleaner, I would be curious to know why only their own cleaner has the power to remove the mold release (if the residue is truly a lubrificant agent from the factory). What special ingredient in their cleaner do they use?