Renaissance Album By Album (& now including Illusion Album By Album Thread) *

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Eleventh Earl of Mar, May 2, 2019.

  1. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ukraine in Spirit
    I think it's the bomb and love Annie's multi tracked middle eight section. Simply fantastic. Now back to Carnegie Hall.
     
  2. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far. Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    Mother Russia



    This is likely the only track I'd say the studio version absolutely is preferable. It doesn't work that great in a live setting, even with an orchestra. It's a piece that I've never warmed up to in any live bootlegs or in person - the work done on the original just nailed the mood so well, and therefore I can't really say I don't like this one, it just begs for me to play Turn of the Cards.
     
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  3. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    Yeah, to me "Mother Russia" sounds a little draggy and somewhat lifeless compared to the studio version.
     
  4. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far. Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    Song of Scheherazade



    This one actually works. In terms of how the movements progress, the band itself can breathe more on the piece instead of the back and forth of Mother Russia. A lot of time for every member to get a bit of spotlight, and a fine version of a fine epic.
     
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  5. anduandi

    anduandi Senior Member

    Just wonderful from the beginning (love Jon Camp's (?) announcement of the song) to the end. Terry Sullivan's drumming, especially in the end section (...a thousand and one nights she sang...to entertain her king) is awesome.
    Best version for me.
     
  6. marcfeld69

    marcfeld69 Forum Resident

    I don't see any harm in going over it again. I've never come across such great detailed discussion in all my searches here.
     
  7. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far. Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    A bit late, again. We should be done with Novella by the end of the week though. But, the huge one, the best live rendition they've done

    Ashes Are Burning



    More upfront harmony vocals... and it's a normal live version. For the first 4 minutes.

    Then you get the instrumental section, extended by about 10 minutes for some of the best musicians of their era to shine brightly. Mostly though, it's Camp - if there's any one track that shows he was the absolute best Rickenbacker player IMO, it's this one. He knows how to play the thing and tastefully arrange not just a bass solo, but a LONG bass solo. And that does not happen often enough. Near the end we get a drawn out ending, replacing the guitar solo with a Camp ascending the melody on his bass as Annie raises her voice multiple times before finally coming to a close. If you owned this back in the day, you could just leave the second disc on for a month and find new things every listen, or really, just put on side 3 or 4 and just dream...

    The plan for the 70s is as follows

    Novella
    Out of The Mist
    A Song For All Seasons
    Illusion
    Azure d'Or

    I want to know if anyone wants to cover Annie in Wonderland (this does have some Renaissance ties, but given it is a solo album I would relegate discussion on the entire album, not every song) and Enchanted Caress - a handful of people asked me to go over this one, though I'm slightly convinced it will end up being a series of me posting my own thoughts every day due to it's obscurity... how should I go about discussion of these? The above will all be discussed in that order.
     
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  8. HiredGoon

    HiredGoon Forum Resident

    A long bass solo .... normally that would make most sane people scream in terror and head for the hills (and I'm a bass guitarist) but this is surprisingly melodic and listenable. Then topped off with a coda chock full of Annie's soaring vocals. Just superb.

    --Geoff
     
  9. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ukraine in Spirit
    You misunderstood my post or I did not make it clear. I said that for the uninitiated this is a great resource. For an old fan like me (and I do mean an old fanatic like me) this topic is a bit boring 4o years later and hard to participate in, but I'm certainly glad that you and others enjoy it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
  10. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    This is "the" track of the Carnegie Hall album for me. It mostly serves to remind me of the exquisite live performance I'd seen at the Tower Theater that same year, and this song in particular soared that night.
     
  11. Tom M

    Tom M Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
     
  12. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    I've never understood the philosophy here that if a conversation has taken place once, years ago, that it should never be discussed again. I'm always happy to jump into discussions that interest me, and even repeat myself if it adds to the conversation.

    I have a Japanese mini-LP CD of ANNIE IN WONDERLAND, and feel it would add to the discussion, probably moreso than the "other group's" albums.
     
  13. I want to know if anyone wants to cover Annie in Wonderland (this does have some Renaissance ties, but given it is a solo album I would relegate discussion on the entire album, not every song) and Enchanted Caress - a handful of people asked me to go over this one, though I'm slightly convinced it will end up being a series of me posting my own thoughts every day due to it's obscurity... how should I go about discussion of these? The above will all be discussed in that order.

    I think it would be great if the discussion were to continue to include Annie Haslam's solo albums.:agree:
     
  14. I agree with your take on this. Funny thing is, though, if I remember correctly from the liner notes to the most recent version of this album, Annie Haslam felt that they shouldn't have performed Ashes are Burning at Carnegie Hall. I don't see how they could have got around that but, obviously, she felt differently.
     
  15. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ukraine in Spirit
    You do what you do and I do what I do. Simple, isn't it?
     
  16. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    That's already been discussed here...
     
  17. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far. Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    Illusion is 100% getting covered for the proper releases - they would have been Renaissance albums if Jim McCarty didn't assume Renaissance version 2 wasn't going to go anywhere and therefore, absolutely are important to the overall discussion of the Renaissance canon.

    As for Annie's entire solo career, I'm saying no to this one on the basis that her work outside of Wonderland is so far away from Renaissance it would set too many precedents for even more stuff I've failed to go over and things I didn't plan to go over. It's a bit out of the scope of this thread, I think.
     
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  18. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    I'm OK with wherever you take the thread. It's just that my personal involvement in the conversation will be limited when you get to the McCarty stuff. I've never heard it. And I never got any Annie solo albums beyond ANNIE IN WONDERLAND, so I get where that's a near-Renaissance album, and would welcome at least a post on the LP/CD.
     
  19. Hershiser

    Hershiser Forum Resident

    Annie in Wonderland is a wonderful record that more people should be aware of. If this discussion could possibly turn someone on to it, then it should be encouraged.

    On a side note, I have multiple copies on vinyl having found a really minty copy on this board recently and tried to “give away” my previous copy on the “Pay it Forward” vinyl thread. Sadly I had no takers for it.
     
  20. HiredGoon

    HiredGoon Forum Resident

    I have it on CD ... a Japanese import that I picked up for $2 or so ... still haven't played it yet. Maybe tonight.

    --Geoff
     
  21. anduandi

    anduandi Senior Member

    Yes, but what about Turn of the cards ?
     
  22. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far. Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    Renaissance - Novella

    First UK cover/reissue cover

    [​IMG]

    The actual first cover for reasons I'll get into later

    [​IMG]

    Side one
    1. "Can You Hear Me?" Jon Camp, Michael Dunford, Betty Thatcher 13:38
    2. "The Sisters" Dunford, Thatcher, John Tout 7:15

    Side two
    3. "Midas Man" Dunford, Thatcher 5:47
    4. "The Captive Heart" Camp, Dunford 4:16
    5. "Touching Once (Is So Hard to Keep)" Camp, Dunford 9:27

    Renaissance
    • Annie Haslam – lead and backing vocals, miscellaneous percussion
    • Michael Dunford – acoustic guitars (6 & 12 string), backing vocals
    • John Tout – piano (Steinway Grand Piano), electric keyboards (analogue synthesizers & Hohner D6 clavinet), backing vocals, percussion
    • Jon Camp – bass (Rickenbacker 4001), acoustic guitars, co-lead vocals on track 4, backing vocals, Moog bass pedals, cello on track 2
    • Terence Sullivan – drums, percussion, backing vocals
    Additional musicians
    • Richard Hewson - orchestral arrangements & conductor
    • uncredited - saxophone solo on "Touching Once"
    Production

    • Dick Plant - engineer, co-producer
    • Barry Kidd - assistant engineer

    This is a bit of a downer record, if I'm honest. Darker songs, darker lyrics, and lots of air compared to the last few albums. The Sisters is one of the most depressing songs I've heard, Midas Man has those churchbells looming over you, and The Captive Heart is a very relatable lyric and one of Camp's best. About the artwork - the album was finished but couldn't release in the UK because... they didn't have a label. BTM was gone, and after shopping around, almost signing with CBS got a deal with Warner (the sister of their US label Sire Records) but between January and September 1977, the artwork was revised and reissued with US pressings from March onward, and therefore 9 months latter when it got out in the UK had the new artwork. Why it got changed, I don't know, and the same artist worked on the original and the revision. Passed on this one multiple times until I finally got a US repress with the new cover for $6 shipped as it's one of my favorite covers that captures what the record sounds like, those are the best ones. One of my top 5 Renaissance records, I'd guess.
     
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  23. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    I'm away from my physical collection at the moment, but I believe my LP copy of NOVELLA has the brown cover, probably a US Sire. My CD is, I believe from Japan and has the blue/white cover art. Nice to have both.

    I found it hard to get into NOVELLA when I first heard it, but later came to really love the two epics on Side One.
     
  24. MikeManaic61

    MikeManaic61 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Just bought the 2019 remaster (only the first several songs as I wasn't interested in the live material), this has always been my fave from Renaissance.

    I wasn't aware how much a downer until you mentioned the lyrics. But never stopped me from singing along in a cheerful way.
     
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  25. Al Gator

    Al Gator You can call me Al

    I just got the 2019 remaster too, including the bonus tracks because I love live albums. After one listen I can say I enjoyed the album. But I'm certainly not ready to give a detailed commentary.
     

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