Reverse stereo channels - what is the impact?

Yesterday I was listening to the fabulous hi-res version of Led Zeppelin's first album. I heard Page do something that had not seemed as prominent before in my years of listening to this album, so I pulled out a CD to compare, from the "hangar" box set. I immediately noticed that these two editions have their stereo channels reversed.

I found several threads here about the fact that there are multiple Zeppelin albums where this is the case.

Aside from how or why this was done, I'm curious if there is any impact from a listener perspective other than what-was-left-is-now-right and vice versa? Is there any potential phase issue when this happens? I know about the trick where, assuming equal vocals are in the left/right, reversing the phase of one channel can create a pseudo-karaoke effect, but does simply reversing the listening experience have any consequences?

 

Reversing the channels will not have any effect on sound quality beyond that of flip flopping the channels as originally mastered/dubbed/recorded.

More critical in classical music in which orchestral arrangement is specific, less so in musical ensembles which are not so clearly defined.

 

A live stereo recording of two or three mics channel reversal would result in soundstage collapse, with a multi-mic multi-mono recordings like the zep catalog channel reversal would be much less audible if audible at all.

 

I believe you're thinking of phase inversion or something ... once things have been mixed to stereo, reversing L-R won't do anything to soundstaging or depth perception etc.. Of course, if the recording was made and in the mixing process to stereo, a L mic was swapped to the R channel, and the other mics remained in the proper 'order', the soundstaging would be 'all over the place'. This would be obvious and not 'fixable' once the stereo tracks were finalized.

I have some live recordings made with reversed L-R (basically, the imaging is as if 'looking' out from the stage); swapping the channels only restored the proper (audience) soundstage, and it certainly sounded more 'correct' as I attended the concert where the recording was made.

Correct setting is certainly important even in recordings containing a stereo image of a drum set, for example. Unless you want a RH drummer to sound left handed.

Seems strange that LZ would 'allow' reversed channel recordings to be released. Even processed/contrived soundstaging should have a 'purpose' that should be preserved. I would hope that on the later one (assuming it's the 'correct' one) there would be a liner note to that effect. Or, maybe they just don't give a ...

 

Agreed.

Other than reversal, it would have no effect on the soundstage in a two channel system for the reasons stated.

 

Thanks for the replies - I'm actually reading a Sound on Sound article called "Phase Demystified" which is covering concepts I really need to get a better grasp on for my own recordings.

As for the stereo issue, I did not expect there to be any phase issues but was not 100% positive. However, having been heavily involved with mixing a number of recordings for release by my own bands over the years, from a creative standpoint I'm really astonished that Jimmy Page would allow these to emerge like this. Mixing is like painting with sound, and when you initially mix a guitar to the left that's because you want it to be on the left - not, well, it's OK on the right as long as it's in the same location off center.

But if you do look at some of the Led Zeppelin threads about this issue, you see that releases of the first album bounce the L/R channels side-to-side from one release to another. Currently John Bonham's opening hi-hat/cowbell is on the right, but from what I read on first pressings of the original LP it's on the left. I have one of those LPs, just haven't had a chance to confirm since I first noticed all this yesterday...

 

This is a question best answered by experimentation. I think you'll find it depends on the recording a great deal.

 

Reverse image is rubbish on classical music, section position is crucial
Less so on pop, its 'creative'

 

You've gotta be careful here, this can result in equipment damage and/or hearing loss...

 

Depending on the quality of your playback system, the quality and type of recorded music, reversed channels can affect the 3 dimension/spatial presentation of the sound stage, more likely with acoustic or orchestral recordings that have a this dimensional characteristic.

 

I don't find that to be the case with produced Rock/Pop music, particularly mixed from a multitrack. If it's flopped, then you just hear everything in the wrong place. It's not out of phase, it's not acoustically wrong, it's just wrong from a direction point of view. The same sound waves are still emanating in the same room, and channel phase has not changed.

That is very sloppy if they reversed the channels on the new remasters. I'm curious why nobody noticed this so far. One assumes the prior 1980s/1990s CDs were correct.

 

It doesn't have any kind of "harmful" effect, but some people are fussy about certain details: On the cover picture for Deep Purple's "Made In Japan", Blackmore is to the right (from the audience's perspective) and Lord to the left. However, on the album you hear Blackmore on the left channel and Lord panned to the right. I've read some complaints about the reversed band stage setup on the recording.

 

In rock/jazz it drives me nuts when it sounds like a left handed drum kit and I know the drummer is right handed, and vica versa.

In classical music again it's just plain wrong when sections are located where they 'shouldn't' be. Though sometimes there is variation with set up, it mostly follows an expectated arrangement. So it makes it far harder to believe in critical listening, I find. Improbable piano orientations too !

 

No the earlier ones varied from time to time. Just going by Bonham's opening hi-hat/cowbell, I have:

"Hangar" complete catalog box set: left
Boxed Set 2: right
Mini LP with OBI strip box: left
2014 CD and hi-res: right

I still haven't checked my original 1969 LP but someone elsewhere said it's left. I suppose I need to look at it with the left it's like I am hearing what John Bonham heard, and right I'm standing in front of Bonham, based on his kit layout.

I'd still like to know what logic - if any - led (no pun intended) to all this...

 

As Gomer Pyle would say, "Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!" I just played my original 1969 Atlantic copy of LZ1, which I bought pretty much as soon as it was released - hi-hat/cowbell on the right.

So, we have a winner with the new CD/hi-res being correct, as far as I'm concerned We'll worry about the other titles down the road

 

A number of jazz piano albums from the 70s are treble left, bass right...drives me nuts. One or two McCoy Tyner albums are like this. To me, jazz piano should sound like you're sitting in the stool.

But basically I'd say the perceived "soundstage" differences in pop recordings with reversed channels is down to differences in acuity between your two ears.

 

Reversing channels does have an effect. Your ears having been exposed to different sounds throughout the years causes them to not be absolutely equal in frequency response. One of your ears might have lost more high frequencies than the other, so you will hear things differently depending of where they come from.

 

Unless the LPs were wrong... Have you compared the UK LPs vs. the American LPs?

 

Yup, it sort of shatters my feeling of reality when hi-hat turns up on the wrong side. Cowbell probably clamped to hi-hat too, I imagine. I'd expect to hear it on the right side of the kit facing as listening to it.

 

This is true. My left ear is better at high frequencies than my right. Switching channels does, therefore, affect me in that respect.

It also affects me when something that was on the left is now on the right. This happened to all of the music that I listened to when auditioning a Croft pre-power combo last week. The reason was that the Croft puts the RH channel RCA inputs and outputs above the LH ones. This isn't what I'm used to and I therefore wired everything the wrong way round.

 

Same with me, left ear is better at high frequencies. Although I must say that has changed in the last few years. My hearing has gotten more refined through countless listening tests and comparisons and I think my brain has managed to compensate for that difference in frequency response. At least now I don't hear that much of a difference between the ears. I definitely think this stuff can be trained. You see with your brain and you listen with your brain as well. The brain is the one doing the heavy lifting in both cases.

 

Cowbell? Did someone say cowbell? We need more cowbell.

 

I have not, as I do not own an early pressing UK. Anyone else with an early UK Led Zep 1?

I'll also search the threads about Led Zep channel issues to see if someone posted about the UK LP...

 

luckydog . . . luckydog . . . luckydog.

Is this the same luckydog formerly on vinyl engine? Did some work with effective mass . . .

Attempting to hunt you down to ask questions and/or get your excel file.

Hope I was "lucky"

 

I just got an original (plaid back) U.S. MCA Elton John "Tumbleweed" CD.

Searching some threads, I see that it supposedly has the channels reversed on (at least) three songs.

I know that at least one Led Zeppelin LP has reversed channels on different pressings... and apparently many other titles from different bands over the years.


Other than the fact that it may throw off those who are used to hearing a recording a certain way, are there any Sound Quality ramifications when engineers inadvertently reverse the channels (from the ones apparently intended) during re-mastering?

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