Review: Thorens TD203 Turntable

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Rattlin' Bones, Dec 6, 2017.

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  1. clercqie

    clercqie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    Issues resolved.

    Hot take: check and replace the belt first if you experience problems with speed. :shh:
     
    Lucca90 likes this.
  2. Rattlin' Bones

    Rattlin' Bones Grumpy Old Deaf Drummer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Odd a new belt would fail on a new TT.
     
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  3. clercqie

    clercqie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    Rather the belt than the motor.

    It's been rather hot here over the last few months, and I play multiple records per day. Dunno if that leads to a much faster stretching of belts...
     
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  4. Rattlin' Bones

    Rattlin' Bones Grumpy Old Deaf Drummer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    I don't think a belt should go bad just from usage using it for maybe 90 minutes a day for 90 days. I'd look at something causing the belt issue something mechanical maybe?
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  5. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    Well they got it wrong. The plinth, chassi and dust cover and some other parts are made in China (to save money) but tonearm and motor are of European manufacturing and all parts are assembled together in Germany in the old Dual factory owned by Fehrenbacher. I got this from an interview with Heinz Rohrer, the former CEO of Thorens.

    No Thorens is ”made in China”, but some parts are made there. Even the TD309 has a chassi made in China, making the chassi in Europe would cost twice as much - according to Mr Rohrer. And prices for MDF boards are crazy here. That’s why some of the plinths are made in China. But everything is put together in Germany, so ”assembled in Germany” is the correct expression.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  6. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    No problem with my belt here, and the ’table is one year and a month old now. Running smooth and perfect as when new.
     
  7. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    Here’s the story: PCB’s are printed in China, plinths, screws and dustcovers are ”made in China”. For the more expensive models 80 percent of the components are sourced from Europe. For the entry level models most of the parts are sourced from China. The tonearms are made in Europe, with bearings sourced from Japan. (The TP82, 90 and 92 tonearms).

    All parts are assembled together in Germany - in the old Dual factory owned and operated by the Fehrenbacher company that also makes Dual and Perpetuum-Ebner turntables.

    None, zero, Thorens turntable is made in China. Only parts are made there, no complete turntable. The parts are shipped from China to Germany.

    This according to an interview made in 2017 by Hifi+ with Heinz Rohrer, former CEO of Thorens.
     
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  8. rff000

    rff000 Well-Known Member

    I have the same TD-203 and my anti-skate kept slipping to notch #3, instead of #2, which I wanted. This happened whenever I replaced the tonearm on the tonearm rest. I figured out a small work-around. I noticed that the metal rod with the notches was inclining downwards whenever I fit the arm into the rest. However, since it's a unipivot, I could rotate the arm clockwise as I put it back into the rest and this kept the rod level, instead of inclined downwards. At least during a few tries, this worked and the anti-skate stayed in notch #2. It's not ideal that you have to rotate the arm every time you put it in the rest and it's not documented, but perhaps worth a try for people having the same issue.

    I called the US distributor (Rutherford) and their suggestion was to bend move the rod with the metal loop, but I was afraid of breaking it or deforming it, so I prefer my slight rotation of the arm in a clockwise direction as I put it in the rest.
     
  9. Rattlin' Bones

    Rattlin' Bones Grumpy Old Deaf Drummer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Just make loop smaller is easiest thing to do; the loop on string is just too big.

     
  10. mjcmt

    mjcmt Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I've been without a turntable for 2 years and have beeb contemplating between the Rega Planar 2 and Thorens TD-203. I pulled the trigger on the Thorens because of the better tonearm and Rega's non-adjustable anti-skating. Also i got the Thorens w/ an Ortofon 2m Blue, so I figured I'd be ahead w/ better sound w/ the Thorens. This turntable/cartridge combo has amazing PRaT. It's punchy and dynamic, bass is tight and sound is clear. I'm pretty sure the Behringer pp400 phono preamp is the weak link, and hoping to get the Schiit Mani phono preamp for Christmas to complete my analogue source.

    The rest of my system is not so well known with the Mystere IA11 EL34 tube Norwegian integrated amp designed by PrimaLuna and Seas Froy Mk3 speaker kit.
     
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  11. clercqie

    clercqie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    Nice! How was the build of the Seas kit? I'm debating building my own speakers as well, and have been looking at a not too difficult kit for a general newbie. The reputation of the Seas drivers is tempting though.
     
  12. mjcmt

    mjcmt Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Thanks Clerqie. You should build the Froy 3. Outstanding sound. Kits with drivers and x-overs are available on line. A little soldering and cabinet building with plans on Seas website.
     
    clercqie likes this.
  13. mjcmt

    mjcmt Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I've had the Td203 up and running for a number of days now. It is outstanding with fantastic PRaT. So clear w/ the 2m Blue. The quick, clear and dynamic sound is similar to a digital source. I like placing an album on the platter w/o a mat as supplied by Thorens w/o a mat. I'm sure this adds to its sure footedness and timing. But my lowly $25 Behringer PP400 phono preamp is the weak link, sounding thin with somewhat shrill highs with some albums, and that is playing thru a tube amp into a lively open room. I'm hoping to get a nice step up phono stage in the next month. Was thinking of the Schiit Mani but I think a phono stage w/ more body would be a better match, maybe a Rega.

    Some folks had issues w/ the anti-skating. None here, it stays put on the 2nd notch from the inside. The loop was small, unlike what others have received, and my 66 yr old eyes and hands had not trouble what so ever setting it up.
    Furthermore I like the dust cover, because my TT sets on a shelf and will not accompany a typical hinged dust cover, plus I like its uniqueness.
    I also noticed the head shell (or more correctly the cartridge mounting plate) has 2.5 mm of overhang adjustment. I've read that earlier Thorens headshells only had 2mm of adjustment and restricted the choice of some cartridges.

    I'm very pleased with it. The only improvement I can think of that Thorens could upgrade would be better isolation feet. Would be great if the TD309 sprung feet were an accessory, but knowing Thorens they would be too expensive of an option.
    All in all I really do love this Thorens turntable.

    I asked Rutherford about a mat and they said if I wanted to they recommended a cork or leather mat.

    That's my ramblings for now...until later.
    Mike
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
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  14. clercqie

    clercqie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    Good to hear!

    FWIW, I'm using a very basic felt mat (with the logo from the local record shop) and couldn't really notice any SQ differences with or without. I also don't have problems regarding static electricity, but that could depend on specific location of course.
     
  15. clercqie

    clercqie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    Regarding phono stage, I'm also debating an upgrade but still unsure what direction to take. Currently using the phono input of my Marantz PM KI Pearl (equivalent to the PM8004). To my ears, it's quite good. Very quiet (85db SNR). I don't know whether a Mani or equivalent phono stage would be a BIG upgrade. People are speaking highly of the Lounge LCR, but it's more expensive in Europe and might as well go directly to the level of a Lehman Black Cube SE or something.

    Problem is, you can't really shop around for this kind of stuff and I'm not a big fan of just ordering online and shipping things back if I'm not satisfied.
     
    Dan Steele likes this.
  16. mjcmt

    mjcmt Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I've decided to use my Thorens in the stock form. I kind of like the idea of setting record directly on the platter. With the recessed center area for the record label it seems like that is Thorens intent. I can imagine it adds extra detail and PRaT.

    I've also decided to give the Schiit Audio Mani phono stage a try. It sits perfectly at the high end of my budget and is probably a big improvement in sound over my lowly Behringer pp400 phono preamp. The reviews of the Mani are pretty impressive. I might ultimately like the Rega Fono better, but its 2x the price. My wife said she'll get the Mani for me for Christmas too.
     
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  17. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    Regarding mats, I’ve just bought the Thorens rubber-felt mat. It’s 3 mm thick with the printed side of rubber and the back is felt. It is red with the Thorens 1883 logo in white. Looks good on my white TD203. :) I also have a 3 mm antistatic carbon mat from Tonar and a 1.5 mm rubber-cork mat from Simply Analogue.
     
  18. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    I’m thinking of install my TD280 MkII along the TD203, using my LP Gear The Vessel A3SE in the TD280 and changing the Benz MC Silver HOMC on the TD203 to a MC Gold LOMC. And replacing my Thorens MM-002 phono pre-amp with a MM-008 or a Musical Fidelity LX-LPS. Both the Thorens 008 and the Musical Fidelity has dual inputs, one MM and one MC and with load plugs for the ohm.
     
  19. Optimize

    Optimize Forum Resident

    Location:
    EU
    According to Thoréns homepage this TT have:
    • Adjustable belt tension
    • Adjustable platter speed
    So if it is adjustable then something can had not been tight enough and got loosen by time..
    I would check the adjustment is secured as it should. :agree:
     
  20. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    I almost bought this TT last year but ended up sticking with my old Luxman.

    I wanted to purchase and loved the speeday switch feature but too many online reviews were negative.
    The most common issue raised was that while the TT was good the pricing structure matched a TT that was the next level up.
    There were other negative points (amongst the positive ones to be sure) which I do not recall at present.
    Anyhow am I right in assuming that very few quality TT's are made with speed switches now?
     
  21. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    Regarding pricing, this may be an issue in the US. In Europe, the TD203 is a 700 euro turntable (some retailers sells it close to 600 euro) which is slightly less than the Rega P3, the P3 is a 800 euro turntable. Now, the Rega comes with a more expensive cartridge.
    If we skip the cartridge, I say that the TD203 is better than the P3:

    * Electronic speed control with speed monitoring circuits.
    * A low friction unipivot tonearm with built-in resonance damper.
    * De-coupled DC motor, suspended with rubber bands.
    * Motor and pulley mounted at the opposite of the tonearm base, at the front left of the plinth. I believe this idea was originally invented by the founder of Pink Triangle and Funk Firm turntables. Funk Gett! and Funk Little Super Deck has the same position.

    The idea is that this position of the motor lowers vibration and resonances, so the tonearm is less affected. This also balances the turntable better since weight is distributed better. And you also get less wiring to the speed controls since the motor is closer to those buttons. The inconvenient thing is that the power lead is a bit fiddly to connect since it’s under the turntable at the front instead of at the back.

    Sound is clean, clear and rich and very stable. I have no issues with it. It looks simple, but it’s more advanced than what perhaps meets the eye at first glance, and it may look like a Rega but the thinking is quite different.

    I’ve tried different mats on it and it responds well to tweaking.

    I have:
    Tonar carbon fibre antistatic mat 3 mm.
    Simply Analogue rubber-cork special edition 1.5 mm.
    Thorens felt mat with logo print, print side in rubber. 5 mm.

    I have not found the lack of spring suspension for the feets to be a problem. The rubber feets works well.

    Regarding the ”slipping antiskate”: Just bend the metal rod with O-ring, with just a light touch. Bend it away from the pin the antiskate wire connects to, bend slightly towards the tonarm making it a little bit more upwards. Just a slight touch. Takes 0.5 seconds. :) And the antiskate will hold it’s place when securing the tonearm in it’s resting position.
     
  22. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    In Europe it cost less than 700 euro and it gives a 1 000 euro performance.

    Well, all of Thorens turntables has speed switch, even their high end offerings. Dual also have speed switch on all of ther turntables, including ther midmarket quality record players. Perpeetum-Ebner has speed switches from their 800 (competes with TD203 and TD206/209) all the way up to their high end. Acoustic Signature has speed switch... Basically, all german turntables has speed switch. :)

    Funk Firm Gett! and Little Super Deck are GB turntables with speed switches. The Gett! competes with the Thorens TD203. And Gett! also has an unusual tonearm (a Funk firm speciality).

    And then we have the asian turntables, they also have speed switches. Teac TN550/570 for example.
     
    All Down The Line likes this.
  23. Optimize

    Optimize Forum Resident

    Location:
    EU
    Wow nice writeup!
    Yes I did not think much about it when it looks like a simple pice of cutting board that I am used to see. But there sounds that it were much more engineering going into it than meet the eyes :)

    It is almost that you sold it to me dispite I am not in the market for a new TT. :D
     
  24. clercqie

    clercqie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    It is a simple piece of cutting board, no denying that. But as raphael has pointed out, I do like the thinking and engineering that's behind this TT. With the constraints manufacturers have at the price point (notwithstanding the Chinese DDs), I do believe it's more clever than the ubiquitous Rega P3 that's reccommended everywhere.
     
  25. musicfreak

    musicfreak Active Member

    Location:
    Amersfoort
    Interesting to read all this info about the TD 203. I can buy a open box 203 for only 320 euro with the standard cartridge, that's quite a deal. But I can buy a TD 206 from the same seller for only 100 euro's more. I guess this 206 with the even better arm and decoupled motor is a good deal for this 420 euro. Do you agree?
     
    Dan Steele likes this.
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