Revisiting Duke - Genesis: It's actually good.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Eleventh Earl of Mar, May 4, 2016.

  1. bRETT

    bRETT Forum Resident

    Boston MA
    Also, the sessions for Behind the Sun started in '84.
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  2. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road

    not really, they changed more, yes
    there is a steady progression of change in genesis from go to whoa
  3. dvfmlfc

    dvfmlfc Scouse, Socialist and by the Seafront

    "Duke" is Genesis' best album by a country mile.

    I was never that pushed by Gabriel-era Genesis, there's some good moments, but the band only really started to hit their stride once he left and Phil took over on vocals. "A Trick Of The Tail" and "Wind And Wuthering" are pretty similar - proggy, yet with an increasingly radio-friendly vibe never realised in earlier years. "And Then There Were Three" isn't that great, they really missed Hackett's presence, but "Duke" was a stunningly-good return to form where I felt Phil, Tony and Mike had finally worked out what they were supposed to do, and it was a very transitional record in ways because it bridged the progressive old with the pop single new. Not many of the 70s prog-rock bands were capable of, not neccessarily reinventing themselves, but updating their sound that kept the hippies happy and made new fans along the way. It was an enormously successful operation.

    The band made more successful albums over the years, but the (pardon the pun) genesis for all this lies in "Duke". Brilliant songs, excellent performances, sympathetic production. Good stuff.
  4. Detroit Music Fan

    Detroit Music Fan Forum Resident

    They were. You are right. I was thinking more of Clapton's August LP and tour. I have to say, too, having seen Clapton a handful of times over the years, the '87 tour with Phil in a 4-piece band was the best I've ever seen Clapton, before or since. And yes, I'm aware Clapton's heyday was in the '60s or early '70s (a little before my time), but still, he was damn good on that '87 tour and Phil's fingerprints were all over it.
  5. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road

    that was a great band and tour .... my personal favourite clapton band was '78 with the grease band and albert lee, as recorded on just one night.
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  6. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Duke took some time to grow on me, but when it did, wow, it was like finding money. It still has plenty of the arty sensibilities of their 70's work, while sticking their toe into the pop rock pool, but without overdoing either. It's a great balance between pop and art rock, resulting in a wonderfully cohesive album that flows so well that it really cannot be enjoyed fully unless you listen to it from start to finish.
  7. Blimpboy

    Blimpboy Forum Resident

    Walton, KY
    Duke is just one point of the ever changing Genesis sound. Many factors are at play here for the first and last time though. Phil Collins as a lead singer and a song writer for Genesis developed at different rates. Phil seems to emulate Peter Gabriel for most of the late 70's albums. With Duke he begins to contribute more as a song writer. His vocals change accordingly. No longer interpreting the work of the others as much. Mike Rutherford likewise is playing to his strengths as a guitarist with great riffs such as in "Turn It On Again".

    Duke is the last album by Genesis co-produced with David Hentschel. The remainder of the Genesis output in the 80's will be engineered and produced by Hugh Padgham. After Duke, Genesis will build their own studio and recording facility, The Farm. This will change how Genesis will write songs as they are not paying for studio time anymore and can spend as much time as they want experimenting. Songs are formed while jamming and just develop from fragments or groves with lyrics added to fit late in development.
  8. CJBx7

    CJBx7 Well-Known Member

    Maryland USA
    Very true. I listened to the 2007 remaster today. Great stuff. It flows very well as an album. I wouldn't change anything about it.
  9. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Me neither. While the album certainly has some standout songs, it is truly one of those "the whole is better than the sum" records.
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  10. bostonscoots

    bostonscoots Forum Resident

    Boston, MA
    Duke is where I came in - "Turn It On Again" was the hook (I'd seen the video on "Don Kirshner's Rock Concert" or maybe even "The Midnight Special") = and I've been a Genesis fan ever since.
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  11. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen I don't suffer fools or trolls gladly...

    Now that I think about it, I believe Duke was the first Genesis album I heard once I decided to investigate their music for myself (I got it from the library). With the intro to "Behind The Lines", I was sucked in from that moment forward.
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  12. bibliotudinous

    bibliotudinous Music Freak

    Sonoma County, CA
    There were times I almost believed it was (I wanted to believe it was), then a year would go by, and another...the last time I listened to it, I just couldn't get into it and traded it in for credit. I don't miss it at all. But it did have some good moments...
  13. Jimbino

    Jimbino Goad Kicker, Music Lover

    San Jose, CA, USA
    You should hear the re-masters from previous years! :hide:
  14. The live Duke's Travels -Duke's End included in this box is outstanding and really shows how strong this material could be live. Also check out the great live version of Deep In The Motherlode on the same disk -it surpasses the studio version on ATTWT imo.
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  15. gojikranz

    gojikranz Forum Resident

    that boxset is bit of a mess but ya the live stuff is pretty great in general. sure wish they would release some complete shows that they were excepted from.
  16. Jimbino

    Jimbino Goad Kicker, Music Lover

    San Jose, CA, USA
    Indeed. If Genesis partnered with and did even one release per tour, they would be some hot hot sellers.
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  17. CJBx7

    CJBx7 Well-Known Member

    Maryland USA
    I have the 1994 remaster and I don't really care for it. The sound is thin and hazy to me, although I'm sure most of that has to do with the original production. The 2007 remaster is far more favorable to Phil Collins' vocals (as is the case with the 2007 ATTWT remaster) and it brings out details that are not apparent on the 1994 edition, such as the bongos on "Behind the Lines". It doesn't completely fix the hazy, somewhat treble heavy production (I wonder what Hentschel was going for when he produced ATTWT and Duke, they both suffer from this), and I know many people feel the 2007 remasters are brickwalled, but to me it still is a distinct improvement.
    Talisman954 likes this.
  18. vinylphile

    vinylphile Forum Resident

    Definitely prefer it to And Then There Were Three, which I find to be a snooze-fest...
  19. Instant Dharma

    Instant Dharma Elliptical Envelopment

    East Bay, Ca
    Im still a huge Genesis fan from Trespass to Stations and this is one of my top 5. Pretty great back to front.
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  20. Rojo

    Rojo Forum Resident

    I agree. "Duke" benefits greatly from Collins more personal/committed vocals and also from Rutherford abandoning the poor Hackett impression he tried in some "And Then There Were Three" songs to do his own thing as a guitar player.
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  21. Rufus rag

    Rufus rag Forum Resident

    Agree, Duke was considered by many to be some sort of return to form! I personally love Duke but not what came before it!
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  22. yarbles

    yarbles Too sick to pray

    This was the first new Genesis album I didn't buy. ATTW3 put me off as it was so sappy, so I gave up after that. I borrowed it off a mate and liked a few songs, but although it was better than ATTW3, I didn't care enough to buy my own copy.

    But it was ok; the next album was where they jumped the shark, never to return.
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  23. “You know you’re on the way out. It’s just a matter of time.”

    I know many find this to be a dividing line for the whole pop/vs prog argument but this album from start to finish just f****** Rocks. Collins coming into his own as vocalist and starting to contribute as a songwriter.

  24. SKean

    SKean Forum Resident

    Central Jersey
    I agree for the most part with your ATTWT assessment, but give Wind and Wuthering its kudos and then give Duke a closer listen-to and
    you'll get into the energy and emotions contained in their last great album known as Duke. I like some limited stuff off of Abacab, and
    agree with you that that was where many true Genesis fans up to 1980 stopped following them, and by the time Abacab came along, the
    sharks were nowhere to be found for they too were disgusted with where Genesis / The Phil Collins Band was headed. Duke has been my
    favorite album from Genesis for quite some time now; the peeks, the valleys, the slow, the fast, loud, quiet.. Up there with Who's next and
    Sticky Fingers with such flow of songs.

    Just my two cents..
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  25. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Resident

    Perth Australia
    It's good compared to Abacab, that's for sure.

    I like most of it, but not enough to want to own it and play it repeatedly.

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