Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Eleventh Earl of Mar, May 4, 2016.
Also, the sessions for Behind the Sun started in '84.
not really, they changed more, yes
there is a steady progression of change in genesis from go to whoa
"Duke" is Genesis' best album by a country mile.
I was never that pushed by Gabriel-era Genesis, there's some good moments, but the band only really started to hit their stride once he left and Phil took over on vocals. "A Trick Of The Tail" and "Wind And Wuthering" are pretty similar - proggy, yet with an increasingly radio-friendly vibe never realised in earlier years. "And Then There Were Three" isn't that great, they really missed Hackett's presence, but "Duke" was a stunningly-good return to form where I felt Phil, Tony and Mike had finally worked out what they were supposed to do, and it was a very transitional record in ways because it bridged the progressive old with the pop single new. Not many of the 70s prog-rock bands were capable of, not neccessarily reinventing themselves, but updating their sound that kept the hippies happy and made new fans along the way. It was an enormously successful operation.
The band made more successful albums over the years, but the (pardon the pun) genesis for all this lies in "Duke". Brilliant songs, excellent performances, sympathetic production. Good stuff.
They were. You are right. I was thinking more of Clapton's August LP and tour. I have to say, too, having seen Clapton a handful of times over the years, the '87 tour with Phil in a 4-piece band was the best I've ever seen Clapton, before or since. And yes, I'm aware Clapton's heyday was in the '60s or early '70s (a little before my time), but still, he was damn good on that '87 tour and Phil's fingerprints were all over it.
that was a great band and tour .... my personal favourite clapton band was '78 with the grease band and albert lee, as recorded on just one night.
Duke took some time to grow on me, but when it did, wow, it was like finding money. It still has plenty of the arty sensibilities of their 70's work, while sticking their toe into the pop rock pool, but without overdoing either. It's a great balance between pop and art rock, resulting in a wonderfully cohesive album that flows so well that it really cannot be enjoyed fully unless you listen to it from start to finish.
Duke is just one point of the ever changing Genesis sound. Many factors are at play here for the first and last time though. Phil Collins as a lead singer and a song writer for Genesis developed at different rates. Phil seems to emulate Peter Gabriel for most of the late 70's albums. With Duke he begins to contribute more as a song writer. His vocals change accordingly. No longer interpreting the work of the others as much. Mike Rutherford likewise is playing to his strengths as a guitarist with great riffs such as in "Turn It On Again".
Duke is the last album by Genesis co-produced with David Hentschel. The remainder of the Genesis output in the 80's will be engineered and produced by Hugh Padgham. After Duke, Genesis will build their own studio and recording facility, The Farm. This will change how Genesis will write songs as they are not paying for studio time anymore and can spend as much time as they want experimenting. Songs are formed while jamming and just develop from fragments or groves with lyrics added to fit late in development.
Very true. I listened to the 2007 remaster today. Great stuff. It flows very well as an album. I wouldn't change anything about it.
Me neither. While the album certainly has some standout songs, it is truly one of those "the whole is better than the sum" records.
Duke is where I came in - "Turn It On Again" was the hook (I'd seen the video on "Don Kirshner's Rock Concert" or maybe even "The Midnight Special") = and I've been a Genesis fan ever since.
Now that I think about it, I believe Duke was the first Genesis album I heard once I decided to investigate their music for myself (I got it from the library). With the intro to "Behind The Lines", I was sucked in from that moment forward.
There were times I almost believed it was (I wanted to believe it was), then a year would go by, and another...the last time I listened to it, I just couldn't get into it and traded it in for credit. I don't miss it at all. But it did have some good moments...
You should hear the re-masters from previous years!
The live Duke's Travels -Duke's End included in this box is outstanding and really shows how strong this material could be live. Also check out the great live version of Deep In The Motherlode on the same disk -it surpasses the studio version on ATTWT imo.
that boxset is bit of a mess but ya the live stuff is pretty great in general. sure wish they would release some complete shows that they were excepted from.
Indeed. If Genesis partnered with nugs.net and did even one release per tour, they would be some hot hot sellers.
I have the 1994 remaster and I don't really care for it. The sound is thin and hazy to me, although I'm sure most of that has to do with the original production. The 2007 remaster is far more favorable to Phil Collins' vocals (as is the case with the 2007 ATTWT remaster) and it brings out details that are not apparent on the 1994 edition, such as the bongos on "Behind the Lines". It doesn't completely fix the hazy, somewhat treble heavy production (I wonder what Hentschel was going for when he produced ATTWT and Duke, they both suffer from this), and I know many people feel the 2007 remasters are brickwalled, but to me it still is a distinct improvement.
Definitely prefer it to And Then There Were Three, which I find to be a snooze-fest...
Im still a huge Genesis fan from Trespass to Stations and this is one of my top 5. Pretty great back to front.
I agree. "Duke" benefits greatly from Collins more personal/committed vocals and also from Rutherford abandoning the poor Hackett impression he tried in some "And Then There Were Three" songs to do his own thing as a guitar player.
Agree, Duke was considered by many to be some sort of return to form! I personally love Duke but not what came before it!
This was the first new Genesis album I didn't buy. ATTW3 put me off as it was so sappy, so I gave up after that. I borrowed it off a mate and liked a few songs, but although it was better than ATTW3, I didn't care enough to buy my own copy.
But it was ok; the next album was where they jumped the shark, never to return.
“You know you’re on the way out. It’s just a matter of time.”
I know many find this to be a dividing line for the whole pop/vs prog argument but this album from start to finish just f****** Rocks. Collins coming into his own as vocalist and starting to contribute as a songwriter.
I agree for the most part with your ATTWT assessment, but give Wind and Wuthering its kudos and then give Duke a closer listen-to and
you'll get into the energy and emotions contained in their last great album known as Duke. I like some limited stuff off of Abacab, and
agree with you that that was where many true Genesis fans up to 1980 stopped following them, and by the time Abacab came along, the
sharks were nowhere to be found for they too were disgusted with where Genesis / The Phil Collins Band was headed. Duke has been my
favorite album from Genesis for quite some time now; the peeks, the valleys, the slow, the fast, loud, quiet.. Up there with Who's next and
Sticky Fingers with such flow of songs.
Just my two cents..
It's good compared to Abacab, that's for sure.
I like most of it, but not enough to want to own it and play it repeatedly.
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