Revisiting Duke - Genesis: It's actually good.

I definitely agree we got that hint of "pop Genesis" on "ATTWT", but as you say, the album as a whole leans heavily prog. "Duke" offers a much better mix of pop/prog...

 

They fired their producer after this album because they didn't think he could handle the 'bottom end.'

 

To my mind Duke is the second best prog / pop album there is after 90125.

 

Without a doubt my favorite Genesis album

 

Yes. On "In The Cage", for example, during Tony Banks' big synth solo Phil beats on the congas while Chester drums. On parts of "Cinema Show" during Banks' solo it's the opposite. I was quite surprised when I found that out- I'd always just sorta figured that during the big instrumental sections Phil and Chester just went at it on the drums whereas they really only drum together for some of the big moments (i.e. the guitar solo in "Firth Of Fifth"), otherwise one or the other is playing percussion while the other plays drums.

If you put a gun to my head, I'd probably say the Duke drum sound is one of my favourite drum sounds on record period. It's a Big Drum Sound but not so over the top as the "gated" sound Collins used throughout the 80's.

 

Duke was recorded at the same studio where Zeppelin did In Through The Out Door. I wonder if PC was inspired by John Bonham, since Genesis followed Zep into that studio by a few months.

 

Did they follow Zep through the in door or did they come in through the out door?..

Did Zep go out through the in door?

it might matter...

 

The best tro album by a long chalk! The only one I still dust down now and again. Great album, especially after the squimp ATTWT!

 

It's awesome. One of my favourite Genesis albums (up there with Lamb and Nursery) and a prime example (the best?) of how to make an 80s record that is still Prog.

The remix is very underwhelming, for one thing, they removed Mike's guitar lick at the end of Misunderstanding, hence totally ruining the climax of the song.

 

There were also quite a few moments where they both sat at the drumkit, but Phil would be playing mainly rototoms while Chester did the backbeat. Their double parts seemed to be quite carefully worked out.

 

Duke is actually my #1 Genesis album.

 

Very worked out...they'd spend weeks just working on the double drumming parts. And yer correct- there's also a fair bit of Phil/Chester double drumming where Chester is keeping the beat and Phil is doing the fills, etc- sorta like lead and rhythm drumming. But when those two get together and start playing in sync, fills and all...wow.

 

I'm listening to Heathaze now ... this could have been such an epic song. But it's like they've kept it in low gear and the sound is muffled and those drums deserve better (at least on my V/C West German CD).

--Geoff

 

The drums and cymbals in Behind The Lines sound worst to me.

 

Not a bad place to stop in the Genesis catalog. For the rest of the way, there's Turn It On Again.

 

Duke is my favourite album of the three-man era.

It's never sounded particularly great on vinyl, however - principally as a result of squeezing so much music (27 minutes!) on to each side of the vinyl.

With this in mind, I do wish some savvy re-release label (Analogue Productions, maybe?) would release a double album deluxe something along the following lines....

Disc 1/Side 1
Tracks 1 thru 4

Disc1/Side 2
5 thru 8

Disc2/Side 1
9 thru 12

Disc2/Side 2
Behind the Lines (B-side edit with the unique intro)
Open Door (B-side)
Evidence of Autumn (B-side)
Turn It On Again (Lyceum Live - from the TIOA promo 12")

ie the album + all of the related outtakes/edits/promo tracks in one (spectacular) double album. And spreading the original album over three sides would allow the music to really breathe.

 

Source? They had used David Hentschel for five albums, plus Mike and Tony's solo records, Phil had just worked with Hugh, so they went with Hugh for an engineer and elected to produce Abacab themselves - to say David was 'fired' isn't really fair or accurate but it does make good copy.

 

I read about Henschel's firing in a Genesis biography published in the early 90s, just after WCD was released. The interviews quoted from should still be available online - the band were not happy with the sound of Duke and the fact that Henschel had been a long-term collaborator counted for nothing. There may have be no formal 'firing' but he was not 'hired' to produce Abacab, or any of the following albums. He was't re-hired, hence he was 'fired'.

 

Of course it is - with Behind The Lines and Man Of Our Times? Yes, they evolved to pure pop, but Man is the best song post-Gabriel song they did.

 

No one was hired to produce Abacab - that's my point.

 

It absolutely is - this was my introduction to the proggier side of Genesis and songs like Man of our Times deeply move me every time I hear them. Also, the drums are huge on this one - talk about nothing short of bombastic!

 

More like a year, rather than a few months.

 

David wasn’t fired. The band wanted to try someone new. It happens

 

Atta boy

 

I love about half of Duke, but there are a few tracks I can live without. "Man of Our Times," "Alone Tonight" and "Cul-de-sac", to my ears, are Genesis stuck in a rut. I would happily swap those out for "Evidence of Autumn" and "Open Door." And I love the concept of having an opening and closing theme, especially the bit where they pull it back for that little (pipe organ?) segue from "Duke's Travels" to "Duke's End" and kick back into the "Behind the Lines" theme. Genesis at their best.

Also, I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere but is there an actual different single mix of "Turn It on Again"? I seem to recall, as a youngster, thinking the single sounded different.