Agreed, and I have a cleaner and more balanced starting point to edit the Chicago II CD files so they don't clip my 6x8 car speakers when I crank them loud so I can hear them above road roar driving down the highway. I can't do that on the Group Portrait versions which have the vocals and horns off center and way too bright.
So on your Remaster one doesn't notice the autotune anymore and the backing vocals on I'm a man don't sound like 8-bit anymore ? Doubt it.
Of course not, all of the weird mix issues are still present. They just go by a bit easier on the ears.
Again, some of you are only focusing on compression/limiting and I don't know why. Compression/limiting is the least of the problems of this remixed reissue. No amount of de-clipping is going to fix the problem if it being a bad mix. Unacceptable. It needs to be totally remixed from scratch if any remixing is going to be done at all. I assure you that if the only problem of this remix was compression/limiting, no one but the audiophiles on this forum would care.
Besides the bad mix issues, it's the eq. Sure there were bad decisions made during the mix concerning compression. The final eq is what made the bad mix hard for me to listen to. I have this theory: The famous mastering engineer comes into his studio one day and pulls up the new CTA remix on his system. He listens for awhile and thinks to himself, 'OMG this is a dog!. Then as he's storming out of his studio slamming the door he barks at the janitor to 'slap a smile eq on that crap and send it back!'. I couldn't get through the mix without defeating that final eq. The mix is still a dog. Although one or two things kind of vaguely sound kinda cool, once or twice.
I don't think the brickwalled 2002 CTA remaster (David Donnelly) is just a louder version of the nice sounding Group Portrait 4-CD box set (Mark Wilder). It's remastered badly not only because of the applied compression but also because of the bad EQ choices. On the other hand, the Group Portrait sounds closer to the sound of the vinyl that I remember hearing when I was a young boy.
The EQ is horrible, too. The midrange is sucked out so much that only a frown EQ could conceivably help it. My theory is that TJ didn't even A/B his work against a reference as he worked. He probably didn't even take many breaks in a rush to get it done. Had he done this, he might have heard the problems. When you do this kind of work, you should constantly A/B your work against the original to see where you are each step of the way. If you don't, you can lose focus. This is all assuming that the correct master was delivered to Rhino. This brings me back to exactly what Bob Ludwig did or didn't do, and what communication he may have had with TJ. When TJ said Jim Pankow had tears in his eyes, Jim was probably weeping over what had been done to his beautiful work.
And, if you remember back to 2002, you will recall that Lee Loughnane stated that he, himself, called the shots to compress those remasters, not Dave Donnelly. It said that he knew it wasn't 'audiophile" but said the results [paraphrase] "rocked". If the thread hasn't been removed, you can do a search on the whole matter. As Steve often says, the artists should never remix or remaster their own stuff. They are too close to the work and cannot be objective.
I'm experiencing your theory right now A/B'ing my edits to Group Portrait version of "25 or 6 to 4". On both Steve Wilson and GP there's very little bottom end kick drum and the snare drum is just too punchy and thin like tiny sticks. Sounds like AM radio on my car system with subs. Also SW has Cetera lead pretty pushed back into the mix, opposite of GP which is too bright and as usual with similar hard rock songs there's mush from all the instruments and vocals playing on top of each other at full tilt. I applied a very subtle tape delay type reverb which separated the chorus and gave it a deeper stage with an EQ but I got Cetera too high pitched and bright. I managed to copy Steve Wilson's bottom end trombone brass chorus. I've got three versions that all sound different. I'm starting over from scratch. This is not easy to do I can swear by it and yes, I'm swearing left and right!
My gold vinyl arrived and I must agree with the disappointing feedback. I guess the best way I can put it is that it makes a nice system sound like a much cheaper one. I went upstairs for another cup of coffee after side one and just for fun said, “Alexa, play Beginnings by Chicago Transit Authority.” What I heard there in the kitchen was quite comparable, or better, than what I’d been playing downstairs. My Columbia 2 Eye, though noisier, is much better in every way. I see on the Music Direct site the 5 reviews are all 5 stars on this remix vinyl. You have to wonder who wrote those. Certainly no one who’s heard another version. On the plus side, my copy is 15/1000. This is the first time I’ve gotten a number that low on anything. Maybe they’ve only sold 15.
As were mine. Nothing I have heard of this effort was worth believing the vinyl would be outstanding in spite of all else sounding bad. Now if I can just untangle the maze that is Rhino returns.
Takes more cojones to step up and admit to a problem and fix it. Much easier to point the finger. The irony is everyone who has loudly stated the new mix sounds terrible are the same ones who know a manufacturing process would not account for the horrible result anyway. Talk about treating your intended public like idiots. 1. Release a terrible effort, believing you can fool everyone. 2. Blame somebody else than the responsible party, create a hilariously illogical culprit, and either release the same crap or take the additional length of time to release a new mix that doesn't sound like garbage. Of course, let's forget about the streaming and vinyl versions which sounded just as horrendous. *shhhhh*
I don't think you're being fair to '60s AM car radios... some of the most inspired musical memories from my youth came out of AM car radios...
I heard Edgar Winter's "Frankenstein" for the first time on a GE transistor pocket radio and it rocked even with one speaker. Just didn't have much of a kick drum, understandably for an AM mono radio signal.
For those posting about returns they've sent to Rhino, where are you at in the process? How long did it take to get a refund? I ask because I sent back an unopened LP which the tracking states was received by them on Tuesday. I followed their return policy on their site to no avail, I can't even get a response from anyone.
I am exactly where you are at in the process, and it is why I will never order directly from Rhino again. You have to follow their 'secret squirrel' return policy that requires an entire hour of on-line research to discover, and then send them the tracking number. All of this must be done by email because they refuse to be contacted by phone. Again, I will never order from Rhino again.
