Ripping HDCD/SACD

I always rip my CDs to iTunes for placement on my iPod. I have some HDCD CDs (like Beach Boys CDs) and I was wondering if there was any way for my laptop to rip the HDCD layer. Thanks!

P.S. The same goes for SACD. I have some of those whose layers I'd like to take off for iPod placement as well.

 

HDCD is encoded within the normal 16 bits of the standard "red book" CD (as I understand it). You should be able to rip them normally just like a standard CD. I have ripped HDCDs to my squeezebox as FLAC and when they are replayed via my HDCD-capable DAC the "HDCD" indicator lights up.
However, if I reduce the Squeezeboxes amplitude slightly down from 100% the HDCD light goes out. This is because the digital samples have been adjusted and the embedded HDCD data bits are gone.

In the data sheet for the PMD100 HDCD filter chip it states:

"HDCD Process Information
--------------------------------------
Data encoded with HDCD process information carries precisely encrypted signals, hidden within the LSB of the 16-bit data word. Over time, only 1 to 5% of the LSB is used for this hidden code. The encoded information is inaudible and causes no perceptible loss of information. The PMD-100 recognizes the encrypted signals as HDCD process information, and directs the decoding function to precisely reconstruct the high resolution signal in a form appropriate for output to the D-A converter being used.

Note: To preserve HDCD process information, no alteration of the encoded data is allowed prior to processing by the PMD-100. Digital data processing including phase inversion prior to Program
the PMD-100 input will result in the loss of HDCD process information encoded in the data."

I saw another thread here today that discussed the use of HDCD "peak extension" that provides an extra 6dB of headroom by shifting output levels. if a HDCD with "peak extension" is replayed in a standard CD player (or ripped from a PC drive) it will like suffer 6dB of compression. See if you can find the other thread if you need more details on this.

 

You can digitally rip SACDs, but you need specific hardware (an older model PS3 with firmware 3.55).

 

Ripping SACD is not easy. You need an old Sony PS3 and hack the firmware then a software to rip the disc. To play the files, you need a DSD DAC. I certainly don't think it's worth all the trouble. Just use a decent SACD player and enjoy.

 

Not entirely true. Ripped DSD files can be actually played back via any PCM DAC too in foobar2000 with foo_input_sacd plug-in.

 

I've seen several "places" online where people have ripped SACDs to 24/88 flacs. I have heard a few of these and they sound great, I would love to be able to rip all my SACDs to hi-res flac so that I could elminate the cumbersome disc all together like I've done with my DVD-A discs. Alas, I don't own any gaming console, and I don't have time to figure out how to run linux or whatever OS is used to hack the PS3. I guess I'll just sell my SACDs and use the funds to re-purchase them off HD tracks as they come out.

It would be nice to reduce my digital system to Squeezebox, amp, speakers, or maybe even powered monitors for the bedroom.

 

Of course, it should also be mentioned that you can rip the red book layer of a hybrid SACD just like any other CD. You won't get the hi-res DSD data, but at least you'll have something for your iPod. With a single-layer SACD, all bets are off - you'll have to resort to using a PS3. Once you've done that, you can use the SACD plug-in for Foobar to convert the files to FLAC or any other format of your choice.

 

But only if you download and employee the HDCD DSP module. The music is actually 20/44, but the FLAC container doesn't support that format, so the plugin adds 4 bits of padding.

I can hear the difference from the Redbook on my home system, but not on my iPhone. Maybe the FLAC player apps aren't good enough, or maybe the DAC in the phone isn't good enough.

 

Ripping a SACD to playback in PCM high-rez is silly when you have the SACD disc. Why would anyone go through the troubles to rip it to play back at a lower resolution. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

Because if you rip (convert, really) DSD to PCM, you have the opportunity to stream it to networked devices (still hi-rez) or even transcode it to portable devices for on-the-go playback. Very useful if you want to listen to titles that don't have a redbook layer.

 

Agreed. I looked into the PS3 trick briefly and decided it wasn't worth the effort.

 

Lower resolution? Bitrate-wise 24/176 PCM is higher than DSD64 (whose bitrate is the equivalent of 16/176 or 32/88 PCM), actually

 

You can also play the SACD on your SACD player and record it in high definition on your computer. Sometimes this is called "digidrop" as opposed to "needledrop" for recording a vinyl record.

When you do this the signal will go through a back-to-back digital-to-analog / analog-to-digital double conversion. Whether this double conversion has an audible effect on your music depends on your equipment and your ears. Frankly, with my equipment and my ears, I can't hear a difference between the SACD and the hi-def file dropped from the SACD. YMMV.

 

or to titles which have significant a/o interesting difference in mastering between SACD & RB layers (ie the DSotM hybrid)

 

I thought iPods couldn't play anything over 16/44. I don't imagine you would notice a difference even if they could. It's pretty cheap DAC hardware.

FWIW: I rip the CD layers of SACDs to 16/44 aif files and they sound great on my Naim streamer. When I borrowed a SACD player to compare, I though the SACD sounded slightly better, but was quite underwhelmed. My wife thought the streamed 16/44 sounded better. I don't even bother with high res files on my iPod/iPhone/iPad. I just downconvert my AIF/ALAC files to 256K to get more music stored.

 

For ripping HDCD I use CUETools. It's a little free app that can verify and split a CUE file to separate tracks and optionally detect and decode HDCD. It's a Windows program.

My process:

Install CUETools
Click the gear icon in CUETools to get the settings
Select the HDCD tab in settings
Check the "Detect HDCD encoding" option

Rip the CD to a CUE using EAC
Open the CUE file in CUETools
Select the "Verify" action
Click Go
Inspect the log to see if HDCD was detected and what HDCD features were detected (peak extend, filters, gain)
If peak extend or gain was detected then decode to HDCD
If no peak extend or gain then don't bother to decode and keep the file as regular redbook 16-bit/44.1
To decode the HDCD make sure the "Detect HDCD encoding" option is set
Select the "Encode" action
Click Go

 

My hair hurt after reading the instructions. I just want to pop in the media and let it rip.

 

I know. I've read through the SACD ripping guide too. Rather complicated. And several steps in there that you could do incorrectly and end up with a sonically compromised rip.

I have fewer than 5 SACDs. All of them hybrid. I don't even own an SACD player. It's not worth me trying to rip them myself. I may send one or two of them to someone who could rip them for me. Maybe. I'm not sure if it would be worth the trouble or expense.

 

For an HDCD, as others have said above, you rip it normally in EAC. What you have now is the un-decoded file.

Now you have two options.
1) Decode the files using hdcd.exe (or CUETools). The resultant file will be decoded, and you can play the 24bit file on any hardware or software media player that supports it. However, the file will be larger in size.
2) Play the original un-decoded file in foobar. Foobar can decode the HDCD files on the fly as you're listening. So you can listen to the 24bit file, without an increase in file size.

 

3) Upload the normal 16-bit file file to your media server and play it through your stand-alone HDCD-capable DAC (my choice).

 

I decode all of my HDCD tracks/albums since I prefer to have the have correct album/track ReplayGain values for all of my files for comparative listening.

 

IIRC, for foobar, if you have the HDCD plugin installed and enabled, when scanning HDCD 16 bit files, it will automatically decode them on the fly and produce ReplayGain values equivalent to the decoded values.

 

May be so now, but it was not the case a couple of years ago when I started ripping my CD collection and I try to be consistent...