Can't say I agree in relation to my original post though. Fogerty's solo albums make it very clear who was the creative force behind CCR...there is no mistaking it. Robbie's solo material, not so much.
Of course, the alternate view is that Helm was (as vinyl man says above) one of JRR's many muses and the arc of The Band's career was deflated by that hoary old hound, "inter-band politics." Crosby and McGuinn famously glommed their names onto Gene Clark's Eight Miles High after making minor contributions to a complete composition. The other Byrds were still living modestly when Gene bought his first sports car with publishing income. They were jealous and the same thing may have played-out within The Band.
Excellent post, and I've always been of a similar view of the whole Robertson / The Band relationship. I totally agree on The Last Waltz - even his liner notes in the box set are creepy. It seemed as though he was practically stalking Scorsese in this effort to "tell the whole story" of The Band Robertson always just came across as a self-important a**hole to me, which, I suppose, doesn't exactly make him unique in the entertainment field, does it? Funny, but one of the things I've always enjoyed is his guitar playing. I'm not a musician, but it always came off as very raw and original sounding to me.
Based on his public personna, there's absolutely nothing likeable about JRR. He and Jimmy Page would probably hit it off like gangbusters.
Difference though is that Creedence had one dominant voice and instrumental sound. If the songs on Robertson's first two albums had been cut by the Band, they wouldnt have seemed too many miles apart. Robertson's a bit of a huckster, always has been. The Americana he embraced in the Band was a pose, but one that he carried off brilliantly. The personae he's adapted since then-- Hollywood jet setter, psycghedelic Native American, then troubadour sage-- not so much.
I though RR 1st self titled album was pretty awesome. A big stylistic departure from the band (Which I approve of...kind of like Robert Plant's solo career did not try to carry on with the Zep sound) but lyricly his solo stuff is not that much of a departure. RR's singing voice may have held him back from more of a solo career. I listened to his last album 2 times and it wasn't bad. For me the bottom line is that RR may have been a bit of an ass in how he treated his band mates but the dude has talent and his solo career is pretty high quality...the man simply isn't a prolific songwriter any more.
I think the OP is being harsh on Robbie. Levon's book reads like a bitter ex-band member. I'm sure all the member made important contribution. Should they have recieved more for their efforts? Most likely - yes. Was Robbie the "leader", most likely - yes. It's a shame they didn't end thing on a better personal note. But that film is, IMO, the great rock doc. ever. I love it. Robbie 1st solo disc is the best solo album bby any Band member. A classic on it's own. Oh...Robbie is a GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! player IMO. Just simply AWESOME.
Last I checked, his first 2 solo albums are pretty well-regarded by most. Also, keep in mind that the Band after reformation (without Robbie) in 1983 did not exactly return to their prior glories. I'm sure many chalked it up to Robbie not being there...
Couldn't have said it better myself. The rest of the band may have been very important to the band's sound, with the exception of Manuel during the early days, they were no songwriters. Levon's claims that Robertson ripped everybody off when it came to songwriting is ridiculous. If there's a good song that has a credit "Written by Levon Helm" I haven't heard it.
For me, putting his obviously despondent band members on the big screen for the whole world to see was waaaaay beyond being a "bit of an ass". It does bear mentioning that I did not see the Last Waltz until 2-3 years ago and that was after I already knew of all of the post-Band trials and tribulations of the other members. So, there is a lot of hindsight there. However, I think the movie is somewhat humiliating towards them. I can't like that movie no matter how hard I try...it's simply too sad. My wife literally cannot watch it and I find it very difficult myself. I also find the Last Waltz show's emphasis on guest stars to be quite unfortunate. The last Band show should have just been only them IMO. I'd rather listen to Rock Of Ages 1000 more times then ever sit through the Last Waltz again.
and yes folks...I AM being hard on Robertson. I state that in my original post. The guy, to me, gives off 100% bad vibes. In my time as a professional musician I met a lot of industry creeps and he just exudes "industry creep". No, I don't know the guy personally and yes I could be wrong. But judging his character based on what I've seen and read is all I can do. Something's not right with the guy.
I read two books probably 15 years or so ago, and you get very different perspectives from each: Levon & Stephen Davis -"This Wheel's on Fire - Levon Helm and the Story of the Band" Barney Hoskyns - Across the Great Divide - The Band and America
This is my take on it all. Question #1: Having some of the best performers around you inspires you to do better. The rest of the guys were also able to turn avarage songs such as "Rag Mama Rag", "Ophelia" and "King Harvest" into something special. In the hands of average performers these songs wouldn't nearly be what they are. Question #2: The southern sound comes from their Sonny Boy Williamson, Muddy Waters, Ray Charles influences. That's something Levon Helm and Richard Manuel brought in. They certainly deserve credit for that. But does that make them the author of "Across The Great Divide", "The Weight" or "Up On Cripple Creek"? Of course not. Question #3: Because Danko's solo album followed the Last Waltz by less than 2 years. Robertson's solo debut didn't follow until another 10 years later when the things The Band did were considered old fashioned. Question #4: As far as I know he still owns the credits of all the songs he wrote for the Band, or have I missed something and has a fellow band member succesfully sued him for plagiarism? Question #5: Robertson's feelings are mixed as well. Obviously proud of what The Band has accomplished, but on the other hand also a little tired and glad that it's over. Question #6: Robertson is indeed only an average guitar player. But then I've always thought Richard Manuel and Levon Helm were better and more important to the Band's sound as singers than has a pianist or drummer.
THIS was a very illuminating discussion where a lot of yer questions will be answered in great, gory detail: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-bands-decline.289633/
Having opinions on the personalities of musicians, and, worse, letting those opinions lessen your enjoyment of their music, gets you nowhere. Musicians are like every other actor, artist, etc. for the most part--temperamental, full of themselves and quirky in a million ways. I could not care less what Robby Robertson or any other musician would be like if I met him in an elevator. I could not care less if Robertson didn't treat Levon Helm right. All I care about is what my ears hear when I listen.
Nothing will ever get in my way of the enjoyment of their music. It's wonderful...some of the best stuff ever. It's mainly the movie I have problems with. Thank you, I KNEW this had to have been discussed on here at one point or another.
To get the whole story, you really need both Levon's book and the Hoskyns bio...Levon's is a great read -his personality comes shining through all the way- but it is a bit biased, not only in regard to his 'hatred' toward Robbie Robertson, but it's really Levon Helm's story, not necessarily all about The Band. The Hoskyns book, on the other hand pretty much tells it the way it went down with no biases; he doesn't really pull any punches...
I still think TLW is one of, if not the greatest rock movie, whether or not the viewer is aware of the whole BS aspect, though I find myself only watching/listening to the Band-only tracks plus the post-production tracks with The Staples and E. Harris. It's frustrating to consider their live discography. In addition to the issues that people already raised, Rock Of Ages was supposedly mostly taped at the soundcheck and not the concert itself, and Watkins Glen is either mostly from other shows or in the case with some of the tracks, not even live recordings. I'm also not usually too thrilled when a band that I like shows up augmented by a horn section and/or a bunch of hired hands.
To the best of my knowledge, Levon never claimed that the other Band members wrote the melodies to any of the songs credited to Robertson, or that they wrote the bulk of the lyrics to any song. What he said is that they contributed arrangement ideas, distinctive musical solos/instrumental touches, or an occasional line of lyric to an otherwise-finished song. He believed they deserved songwriting credit for that. But the fact is, that is not the way things are done by almost everyone. If the other Band members deserve songwriting credit, then Harrison, Starr, and George Martin deserve songwriting credit for many Lennon/McCartney songs. Jones, Watts, and Wyman deserve credit for many Jagger/Richards songs. For that matter, Nelson Riddle deserves songwriting credit for all the songs he arranged for Sinatra albums. And so on. What the Band contributed is the same as what dozens of other band members or arrangers contributed to songs in their respective groups. What Robertson did was not unique... he was simply following the same rules as everyone else. The person (or persons) who write the melody and the majority of the lyrics are typically considered the songwriters, while arrangement and instrumental contributions do not get songwriting credit. Is this fair? We can debate that, but the fact is it's the way almost everyone does it. There have been a few exceptions over the years, bands who choose to credit songwriting to the group as a whole regardless of who contributed what (the Doors, the Ramones, REM). But this is not the norm and it's hardly fair to single out Robertson for criticism for doing what almost everyone else does. On a side note, I agree that Levon seemed like a much more likable guy than Robertson. Robertson does come across as egotistical, self important, and pretentious. But just because Levon was more likeable doesn't make him right in this instance.
Robbie Robertson is a fine guitarist, raw and emotional in the Hawks backing Dylan - economical and eloquent in the Band's prime. I don't find it credible to dismiss musical talent just because of some unfavorable view of the person.
I dunno...Levon's completely over the top animosity towards Robbie Robertson doesn't really strike me as being a 'likeable' quality. As I've said before, I think in his later years Levon spent a lotta time being angry; I wouldn't be surprised if all that poison animosity contributed to the decline in Levon's health over the years (one might say it literally ate him up like cancer) . And as far as the way he tries to bring Robbie down by building himself (and, the other Band members to a lesser degree) up in his autobio kinda makes me think that Levon could come across as just as egotistical and self important as Robertson could at times. Matter of fact -and Barney Hoskyns pretty much comes right out and says as much in his book- I'd be brazen to say that Levon Helm's 'good ol' boy' persona was just that -a persona. I personally would not have wanted to have been around the man if the name "Robbie Robertson" ever popped up while Levon was in earshot... Bottom line, I don't think neither Robbie nor Levon were 'right' about any of this mess...both sides seemed to handle the situation very badly. Not that it really matters anymore, I suppose...
Here's a really good quote from the earlier thread that I never considered before: It's very true. It's almost impossible to believe that Levon didn't have something to do with "Dixie" when you hear him sing it. Perhaps that's one of many things that has eluded me in my "blame" of Robertson.
Normally I'd agree 100%. Rock Of Ages is the only exception I can think of where a horn section (or more accurately the horn arrangements) really brought something to the table.
Good point. I should clarify that my conception of Levon as being more likable is almost entirely based on how the two of them come across in The Last Waltz. But Levon was a talented actor, so you're quite right that his persona in that film may not be the real him.
