Robert Johnson: The Complete Original Masters - Centennial Edition Box Set

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by marc roberty, Feb 17, 2011.

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  1. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I believe he did all the takes of each song before moving on to the takes of the next song.
     
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  2. therockman

    therockman Senior Member In Memoriam


    You'll get used to them. Some nice effects with the synthesizers.
     
  3. bubba-ho-tep

    bubba-ho-tep Resident Ne'er-Do-Well

    Location:
    San Tan Valley, AZ
    I did a search but forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere, but I want to recreate the two KOTDBS LPs using the tracks from The Centennial Collection. Is there a definitive list somewhere of which takes go on which album?
     
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  4. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I don't have track lists for the albums, but you can piece things together here:

    Notes on the Robert Johnson recordings on CD
     
  5. ALAN SICHERMAN

    ALAN SICHERMAN Van Cortlandt Park, Bronx, NY

    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    I have the CD collection and RJ was great but the sound could never be mistaken as good.
     
  6. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    The recordings are what they are, but the 2011 CD set sounds noticeably better than other reissues, with the exception of the alternate Cross Road Blues on American Epic.
     
  7. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    bubba-ho-tep likes this.
  8. calculon559

    calculon559 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Australia
    All tracks on KOTDB are the 'originals' except Cross Road Blues, Come One In My Kitchen, Ramblin' on my Mind, Traveling Riverside Blues, Milkcow's Calf Blues & Me and the Devil Blues

    All tracks on KOTDB 2 are the 'originals' except Kind Hearted Woman, Ramblin' On My Mind, Little Queen of Spades, Stop Breakin' Down Blues & Love In Vain

    Hope that helps.
     
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  9. RZangpo2

    RZangpo2 Forum Know-It-All

    Location:
    New York
    They spent years scouring the earth for original parts to recreate a 1920s portable recording setup, such as was used to make the recordings in the set. Then they made new recordings of contemporary artists on the 1920s recording rig. Then they reverse-engineered the EQ and applied it to the original recordings. The results are stellar. The most natural-sounding transfers of these recordings I've heard.
     
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  10. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Hi Everyone,

    lukpac thought this would be the best thread on SHF to host this info:

    This Saturday, April 23, at 3:30pmPDT (UTC -7), the Pacific Northwest Section of the Audio Engineering Society will host a presentation by lukpac and Nicholas Bergh (recordist on the recording sessions using vintage equipment on the PBS American Epic series) titled

    "Robert Johnson: A History of His Recordings, and a look at the type of gear used to make them."

    Luke will largely do the former, and Nick will do the latter.

    A description:

    We'll look at how and where his recordings were made, how they were released (and what was left unreleased), and discuss (and hear) how they've been reproduced in the digital age. We'll also discuss the notion that Johnson's recordings were sped up (spoilers: they weren't).
    Nick says:

    "One thing interesting about the RJ recordings, and one of the reasons they have such a special sound, is that they were using somewhat "antique" recording equipment. Extremely different from what was being used at say RCA studios at this time. As a result, the gear I used in American Epic is very relevant. If people have not seen it, (there are Youtube links below).

    "I'm not sure what is wrong with the sound in the first link, but it has the best look at the equipment. It appears to be someone's rip from the DVD with clocking errors. The second video is an official post with proper sound. It also has the more relevant microphone for the discussion. This mic should have been used for all of the American Epic recordings, but it was too flakey when I first got it working. This is the first version of the condenser microphone and was essentially built by hand at Bell Labs out of wood hobby boxes.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo08_FHT1jM

    The entire film streams on Amazon for a few dollars if someone wants to watch all of "Sessions" episode to see the recordings (the fourth episode).”

    This will be a Zoom meeting, and if you PM me here I'll send you the link to join us. Note that we use real names at these events (this will be #84 in the series which started early in the pandemic) and you are welcome to speak as appropriate. We reserve the right to remove anyone behaving disruptively in our sole opinion, and ask that you do not share the link with anyone so that we can know how many are coming. There is a limited capacity, and we also reserve the right to run out of space.

    I'll not be paying attention to my forum PM's after Friday, so please ask before that or you'll miss out.

    We also have a portion of the meeting set aside for all attendees to introduce themselves and say what their connection to audio and/or the meeting subject matter is, and we've met a lot of great people that way and would like to meet you.

    These meetings are best experienced on a computer rather than a phone or tablet, but you do you. You will absolutely need to be able to mute your mic and turn off your video, and anyone not doing that will be removed after one warning. "Doors" open half an hour early to check audio and video and chat.

    One of the beauties of online meetings like this is we can go as long as we want and get to the bottom of our topics, with almost no time limit and each participant able to individually take care of their need for breaks without disrupting the sharing of information in the meeting. I try to stop things at around 4 hours, although the presentations themselves rarely go that long.

    So please join us, and thanks to Luke and Nick for doing this. Also to the SHF for having such great discussions; this place has been a big part of my life and probably yours, too.
     
  11. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Too bad you all missed the presentations yesterday. It was a magnificent learning experience and explained a lot about RJ, the various ways his music has sounded over the years almost entirely due to deficiencies in the transfer process as well as masters being recycled during the war years, and the recording process and gear at the times of recording.

    There are still mysteries in the man and the music...

    Thanks for the Likes, I guess.
     
    ggjjr, RiRiIII, lukpac and 3 others like this.
  12. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Revisiting this (from another, now closed, thread):

    I just got a copy of King Of The Delta Blues, and it is in fact completely identical to the 1996 The Complete Recordings, sans a slight level shift (nearly everything is about 0.93dB louder than the 1996 set; Stop Breakin' Down Blues and From Four Until Late are slightly quieter).

    Wondering if @C6H12O6 was thinking about the 1990 set, not the 1996 set.
     
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  13. C6H12O6

    C6H12O6 Senior Member

    Location:
    My lab
    It was a while ago, but I think I was thinking of the similarly titled "King of the Delta Blues Singers" CD based on the original Columbia LP and remastered/reissued a little bit later.

    Robert Johnson - King Of The Delta Blues Singers

    I can't remember if I ever had access to the CD you linked to, but I definitely had Blues Singers. The only RJ set I have now is Centennial - anything else I had I sold in anticipation of getting Centennial.
     
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  14. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Yep, that one is unquestionably different. New transfers from 78s, as opposed to the old Frank Driggs transfers.
     
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  15. C6H12O6

    C6H12O6 Senior Member

    Location:
    My lab
    I just did some searching and completely forgot there was The King Of The Delta Blues Singers Volume 2. I actually had that one - completely forgot I did, but that cover refreshed my memory.

    I could be mistaken again, but I'm 90% certain that I was thinking of volume 1 and 2 of Blues Singers when I was thinking of different, superior transfers.

    Apologies for the earlier mix-up!
     
    lukpac likes this.
  16. jb welda

    jb welda yellow eyed dog

    I have this Centennial Collection as well as the earlier compilation of much of this material and I have to say I am more than impressed with what seems to be Johnson's ability to play lead lines as well as rhythm guitar at the same time, even at the same time as him singing. Very impressive display and to think it was all recorded in a hotel room in front of a microphone in more or less one take each is spectacular in its own right. I was never into the stripped down delta blues sound but this set completely changed my mind on that. And I do not mind imperfect sound as long as its authentic imperfect sound.

    jb
     
  17. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Not to take away from that, but two points:

    1) Two takes of each song were saved/sent to New York.

    2) It's not clear how many other takes, if any, were recorded. The two takes sent to New York could have been the only two recorded, or there could have been many more. We'll likely never know, though, because any takes beyond the two that were saved were immediately scrapped.
     
    bmoregnr likes this.
  18. jb welda

    jb welda yellow eyed dog

    Thank you. What I actually meant by the "one take" part was that the recordings were not dicked with once recorded, they represent pretty much what he played, right there, right into the microphone(s). I did realize he cut more than one take of particular songs.

    I would like to have seen that special on the technicalities of how field recordings were made back then.

    jb
     
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