Robert Johnson: The Complete Original Masters - Centennial Edition Box Set

Do the notes say if these are new transfers or just better processing? I think the engineers are getting a lot better at taming distortion with the current digital tools (you should have seen me waiting for the well know distortion bits on the Beatles remasters that have been 'fixed' now. In 20 years, people will be moaning about the bad quality of first issue vinyl and such on 'I Want You' screams..)

I'm thinking it might be a combination..

 

From post 149:

One exception is the master of Traveling Riverside Blues. "Transfer courtesy of the Library of Congress - Michael Donaldson, engineer"

 

Stop saying these are great

 

These are excellent

IMHO, this is the definitive RJ set.

I spent last night going through the booklets of all the old releases the only thing of interest missing from the new set is the complete lyrics from the old boxset.

 

One more positive review and I won´t be able to resist temptation. The crossroad story lives through RJ´s reissues

 

Just did a quick comparison of the KOTDBS CDs, as well as half of the '90s box...

I think I'd be inclined to say the KOTDBS CDs would be a B, or maybe B-. That said, for the most part the EQ does pale next to the new set. Plus, while most tracks seem to be relatively free of NR, it seems that at least some do have NR on those two discs. That doesn't seem to be the case on the new set.

Agreed about it being definitive, although I'd say there are a handful or so of tracks that exist in better transfers on the older CDs. While the overall mastering may be better on the new set, it seems like they should have used different sources for a few tracks.

Also, I'd say there's also some useful information in the old booklet regarding master numbers and such not reproduced in the new set.

As far as Stephen C. LaVere's involvement on some of the previous CDs...:

'90 box - Wrote the main essay and was producer with Frank Driggs.

KOTDBS ('98) - producer and provided source material

KOTDBS v2 - not seeing any mention

 

Good point, they're pretty reasonable taken on their own merits.

I noticed that a few of the new transfers have some anomalies that aren't on the previous sets, but I found them few and far between.

Ah yeah, I forgot about the nice discography in the old boxset booklet.

 

It is really nice to hear they got these right , i juat REALLY want that boxed set , i almost wish they did maybe a 3-lp set on vinyl like they did in the 90's ? with the good masters .......

 

I just compared the Centennial Collection on Napster streaming to my 1996 CD and agree with the glowing reviews. Even with the low bitrate streaming, the benefits of the new transfer are glaringly obvious. Johnson's voice is giving me chills, like a ghost has come back to life. I'll be buying the new collection this week for sure.

 

Thank you for your review. I'll be buying this set. I think back to when the Columbia set came out and how warmly received that was then. Strange that all of the Columbia reissues eventually became considered the low mark of race reissues due to their heavy handed NR methods. It would be nice they Centennial could get their mitts on the Bessie Smith material.

 

All true, though to clarify, Lawrence Cohn was the man who had the clout at Sony to get the 1990 box issued. He is listed above LaVere and Driggs' names on the 1990 box as the Producer of the "Roots 'n Blues Series", and it is Cohn and LaVere who were issued the 1990 Grammy for the box. Steve LaVere spent nearly 15 years trying to persuade somebody, anybody at Columbia/Sony to issue a box set featuring the first photo of Robert Johnson, but he had zero clout. Only Lawrence Cohn was able to get it done at Sony.

If we are candid about Mr. LaVere's involvement, it boils down to this: he was a blues researcher in the late 60s and early 70s who found Robert Johnson's half-sister, and in turn found the first documented picture of him in her family memorabilia. He "persuaded" her to sign over a huge chunk of the legal rights to Johnson's recordings and the photograph to him.

It was the proverbial "music business sharpie" negotiating with a poor, black, uneducated woman, with the promise of money hanging over it. If you were her, how would you have responded? If you are poor and powerless, as she was, a bird in the hand...

Many years later, there were big legal battles over whether LaVere and Johnson's half-sister really ever had the right to assume control of Johnson's music catalogue, and when the dust settled, Johnson's subsequently-discovered son was awarded 7 figures for his overlooked rights to his father's musical legacy.

You can read about some of the struggle at http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jun/02/nation/na-claud2

These things are never pretty to watch when big money is involved, but Mr. LaVere's involvement with the Robert Johnson story is one that does not bring to mind adjectives like "noble", "self-sacrificing" or "generous".

 

No need, the Bessie Smith CDs on the Frog label (DGF-40~47) sound good. They were mastered by the late John R.T. Davies and Bessie never sounded better on CD.

 

Indeed!

Hans (J.A.W.) first recommended them to me a couple years ago, and they are stunningly great sonically. I seriously doubt that Sony, given a second chance, could or would do them as well as Frog did them. Don't let the tiny UK label scare you off: this was a huge labor of love for Paul Swinton/Frog and the late Mr. Davies, and it is a masterpiece effort.

 

I just noticed that the timing for the "Ramblin' on My Mind" master take actually matches the timing of the alternate take and vice versa. A goof?

 

Actually, the Frog Bessie Smith project was an undertaking of Frog's founder, David French; it was finished just before both Mr Davies and Mr French died.

 

What are you referring to? My CD player reads the master take as 2:25, and the alternate take as 2:54. Not even close.

There are no timings listed on the cover or in the booklet, and a quick listen revealed the two takes to be distinctly different.

 

While I don't have the other CDs in front of me, the timings online (AMG) indicate what was previously known as the master take was the 2:54 version. Not owning any RJ 78s, I couldn't say which is correct, but it would seem that either the new set or the previous sets had the two mixed up.

 

I stumble across the timing issue while compiling my own KOTDBS sets using the new centennial remasters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Of_The_Delta_Blues_Singers

Note the timing for "Ramblin'" (assuming Wiki can be believed). It matches the timing for the "alternate take" on the new set.

Same deal here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Recordings_(Robert_Johnson_album)

It's not a huge deal to me. More curiosity than anything else.

 

Oh, so you think the new release lists the alternate as the master, and vice versa? That wasn't quite clear from your original post. I thought you were saying that the new release mistakenly presents the same recording as two different takes.

I think it's just a Wiki mistake. I believe the faster version of Ramblin' is indeed the master. It's definitely a much better take.

 

Per above, the times on AMG match Wiki.

And while I can't say for certain what master is listed (physical disc is at home), KOTDBS has the 2:53 take.

 

how do the Frogs compare to the JSPs of Bessie?

Both Vol 1 and 2 of the JSPs (total of 8 CDs as well) are considerably cheaper -- and sound much better than the Columbia boxes, as far as I can remember.

 

Get the Frogs, avoid the JSPs. The Frog CDs give you the best sound quality possible.

 

The slow version of "Come On In My Kitchen" off of KOTDBS is presented as the alternate take on the new set.

 

Gotcha. Interesting. KOTDBS definitely tried to play up RJ as a brooding, mysterious figure, so I could see the compilers preferring the slower take back then. But the faster version definitely sounds superior to me.

I'll have to go back to the 1990 box to see which one is the real master.

 

Again, without having the discs in front of me, I believe the KOTDBS CDs (and presumably LPs) used some alternate takes. I know Cross Road Blues in particular is the alternate take.

It's also possible that the release history in the '90 box wasn't 100% correct. The new set notes the alternate Kind Hearted Woman Blues is the only alternate to have been released on 78, but the '90 box indicates several alternates were released on 78. I'd have to look at the booklet to see, though, and again, I unfortunately don't have access to any of the original records.